Browsing articles in "Interview Transcripts"
Jun 21, 2005

Transcript of Doorstop Interview – Whaling, Malcolm Turnbull, Australian lack

Transcript of Doorstop Interview, Parliament House, Canberra

ANTHONY ALBANESE – SHADOW MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND HERITAGE

Tuesday, 21 June 2005

Subject: Whaling, Malcolm Turnbull, Australian lack of international credibility on international environment matters, Kyoto Protocol.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Today is a critical day at the whaling conference and it would appear that Labor’s worst fears may well be borne true. That is, that the Howard Government has been asleep at the wheel. It has done too little, too late.

While Japan has been busy recruiting countries since 2002 to vote for its position, the Australian Government has been busy intervening in Court cases to stop Australian law being upheld to stop whaling in our own waters.

If I can offer some advice to the Howard Government, it’s that maybe they should ditch Senator Campbell and put Malcolm Turnbull in charge of whaling, because it would appear that Malcolm Turnbull understands that you get out there early and do the work early to get the numbers rather than Senator Campbell who’s been asleep at the wheel.

It’s of great concern that we don’t know what will happen today. It’s clear that there’s a need to do much more than rely upon what appears to be a roll of the dice. We need to take action in the International Court of Justice to show that we’re serious about stopping whaling once and for all. And as a minimal position, we need to actually enforce Australian law and stop whaling of Aussie whales in our territory.

JOURNALIST: It isn’t really a roll of the dice though because Japan stacked the branch … [inaudible]

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Well, Japan stacked the branch at a time when Australia was doing nothing. It’s very clear from Senate Estimates that Alexander Downer, for example, didn’t raise the issue of whaling with Japan anytime between 1996 and 2004. What we want to know is when the Prime Minister went to Japan earlier this year did the Prime Minister raise the issue of whaling?

The truth is that a last minute scramble for votes to play catch-up is not good enough when Japan, Norway and Iceland have been very determined over a number of years. And what’s Australia’s objective on this? Australia’s objective today, of Senator Campbell, is simply to come out of the IWC with the status quo intact. That’s a status quo that has allowed 400 Aussie whales to be slaughtered in our territory since 2000.

What we need to be doing is getting on the front foot and taking measures which will stop whaling once and for all.

JOURNALIST: [inaudible]

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Well, they weren’t over recent years. It’s very interesting. Everything that the Foreign Minister detailed yesterday was all about the last minute scramble, a last minute scramble which is too little too late.

And the problem Australia has got is that the international community have come back and said: “don’t lecture us about whaling when you won’t sign up to the Kyoto Protocol which is the most important environment challenge facing the world community”.

Australia has an isolationist position on that, alone with the United States of the entire industrialised world, says we don’t care that 141 countries have say that the Kyoto Protocol is the way to go, we’re going to go it on our own.

And on that basis, it is not surprising that other countries are using that to say: “well Australia’s going on its own there, don’t take them seriously when it comes to international environment issues”.

Thank you.

END

Jun 21, 2005

Transcript of Doorstop Interview – Whaling, Malcolm Turnbull, Australian lack

Transcript of Doorstop Interview, Parliament House, Canberra

ANTHONY ALBANESE – SHADOW MINISTER FOR THE ENVIRONMENT AND HERITAGE

Tuesday, 21 June 2005

Subject: Whaling, Malcolm Turnbull, Australian lack of international credibility on international environment matters, Kyoto Protocol.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Today is a critical day at the whaling conference and it would appear that Labor’s worst fears may well be borne true. That is, that the Howard Government has been asleep at the wheel. It has done too little, too late.

While Japan has been busy recruiting countries since 2002 to vote for its position, the Australian Government has been busy intervening in Court cases to stop Australian law being upheld to stop whaling in our own waters.

If I can offer some advice to the Howard Government, it’s that maybe they should ditch Senator Campbell and put Malcolm Turnbull in charge of whaling, because it would appear that Malcolm Turnbull understands that you get out there early and do the work early to get the numbers rather than Senator Campbell who’s been asleep at the wheel.

It’s of great concern that we don’t know what will happen today. It’s clear that there’s a need to do much more than rely upon what appears to be a roll of the dice. We need to take action in the International Court of Justice to show that we’re serious about stopping whaling once and for all. And as a minimal position, we need to actually enforce Australian law and stop whaling of Aussie whales in our territory.

JOURNALIST: It isn’t really a roll of the dice though because Japan stacked the branch … [inaudible]

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Well, Japan stacked the branch at a time when Australia was doing nothing. It’s very clear from Senate Estimates that Alexander Downer, for example, didn’t raise the issue of whaling with Japan anytime between 1996 and 2004. What we want to know is when the Prime Minister went to Japan earlier this year did the Prime Minister raise the issue of whaling?

The truth is that a last minute scramble for votes to play catch-up is not good enough when Japan, Norway and Iceland have been very determined over a number of years. And what’s Australia’s objective on this? Australia’s objective today, of Senator Campbell, is simply to come out of the IWC with the status quo intact. That’s a status quo that has allowed 400 Aussie whales to be slaughtered in our territory since 2000.

What we need to be doing is getting on the front foot and taking measures which will stop whaling once and for all.

JOURNALIST: [inaudible]

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Well, they weren’t over recent years. It’s very interesting. Everything that the Foreign Minister detailed yesterday was all about the last minute scramble, a last minute scramble which is too little too late.

And the problem Australia has got is that the international community have come back and said: “don’t lecture us about whaling when you won’t sign up to the Kyoto Protocol which is the most important environment challenge facing the world community”.

Australia has an isolationist position on that, alone with the United States of the entire industrialised world, says we don’t care that 141 countries have say that the Kyoto Protocol is the way to go, we’re going to go it on our own.

And on that basis, it is not surprising that other countries are using that to say: “well Australia’s going on its own there, don’t take them seriously when it comes to international environment issues”.

Thank you.

END

Apr 18, 2005

Breakfast: ANZAC Cove

Breakfast: ANZAC Cove

Monday, 18 April 2005

FRAN KELLY: At the end of the week, John Howard will fly out of China to Turkey to spend the 90th anniversary of the Gallipoli landing at Anzac Cove where controversy abounds over the construction of a new road. Intended to relieve pressure on the small war cemetery at Ari Burnu, the headland of Gallipoli, the road was meant to help the almost 25,000 Australian and Kiwis expected at this year’s dawn service to navigate their way between memorial sites. But instead the roadworks have disturbed artefacts and almost certainly some human remains of those who were killed in the historic battle, though the Australian and Turkish governments have been loathe to confirm this unpleasant fact.

Two observers who know Anzac Cove well are Jonathan King and Mike Bowers, authors of the book Gallipoli: untold stories. You might remember, we spoke to them a couple of weeks back about that new book. Mike Bowers is the pictorial editor for the Sydney Morning Herald and he joins us now from near Anzac Cove in Turkey. Mike, good morning.

MIKE BOWERS: Good morning, Fran.

FRAN KELLY: Mike, you’ve been there, to Anzac Cove, plenty of times. Are the roadworks as devastating as the critics argue? Does it look different?

MIKE BOWERS: I saw it on TV and I was prepared for it mentally, but when I saw it, I was shocked. It is an enormous roadwork and the change to Anzac Cove itself and, in fact, the whole way along beyond Anzac Cove—both ends—it is much more than … I was absolutely shocked when I saw it. It’s gone beyond what I thought it was.

FRAN KELLY: Mike, tell us a bit more about that in terms of, you know, people come and look at the landing sites and they clamber up the areas where the diggers clambered up. Are those sites still there or have those actual key points been disturbed by the roadwork?

MIKE BOWERS: Well, Anzac Cove is where, and particularly one point of Anzac Cove at the northern end, Ari Burnu, is where the Ninth Battalion first stepped ashore on 25 April in 1915. And Ari Burnu, I asked a Turkish interpreter today what it meant and he said in Turkish it meant ‘bee’s nose’, a bee as in a honeybee. That’s because of the shape of the spur that drops down into the water, where the Australians from the Ninth Battalion first stepped ashore. They’ve cut right through that, Fran, and it no longer looks like a bee’s nose; it looks more like a bee’s leg, a broken leg at that. There’s a large gouge or a reverse ‘L’ if you like, right-angled into the side of the hill, and they’ve taken an enormous amount out to widen it. In the widening process, the excess, they’ve dumped it down into Anzac Cove. And I read a little while ago when I was doing research for the book that in 1915, the beach was 25 metres wide. It was, of course, used as a supply dump for the entire campaign.

There are places now on Anzac Cove that are less than a metre or two metres wide from the high tide mark. Now what that means is that the beach is completely narrowed and there is a great tradition after the dawn service at Gallipoli that you walk along Anzac Cove. That’s now no longer possible in a few places, especially if the tide is high. So it has dramatically changed what that area is.

FRAN KELLY: And it changes, in a sense, the power of the retelling of the story, doesn’t it, because it doesn’t look the same any more? You can’t imagine how they tried to climb up that bee’s nose or cross that beach.

MIKE BOWERS: No, because it has now turned into a sheer cliff. And it’s quite ugly. It is exposed earth and I think there’s going to be a lot more erosion and I think that a lot more of the cove will get buried because of erosion and what’s going on.

FRAN KELLY: Mike, what about the claims that human bones have been unearthed during these roadworks? Have you been able to confirm that?

MIKE BOWERS: Yes. I was shocked. Yesterday, I was walking along with my translator, who was a few yards behind, and I was approached by one of the workers on the roads and I thought he was telling me that everything was going to be all right, or maybe having a go, because we are media, I had cameras all over me as I normally do. The translator caught up and he was in fact trying to tell me that he’d found a bone and he was waving this bone at me. It was quite a large bone. It turned out to be the upper part of a human arm. We had it looked at by a doctor. He showed it to us and then threw it back down on the rubble and we didn’t think it was right that the bone sort of stayed there, so we actually took it and we are giving it to the Commonwealth War Graves people tomorrow morning.

So yes, I can absolutely confirm that human remains have been found, and it was quite a shock. We’re less than seven days away from upwards of 25,000 record Australians, New Zealanders and people from all over the world coming in. It’s quite disturbing that there’s remains. My grandfather was lucky enough to live through this campaign but, if I’d lost a relative, I would be deeply shocked to walk past some roadworks and find human remains sticking out.

FRAN KELLY: Mike, it sort of conjures up an awful image, doesn’t it, of all these people clambering over the beach. When people are there, I think they look around for artefacts anyway. That’s just natural. If they’re coming up with human remains that have been unearthed, it’s not only undignified and disrespectful, it’s just wrong, isn’t it? What’s going to happen with these remains?

MIKE BOWERS: Well, one of the good things that’s come out of it—we were speaking to some War Graves people today. They’re going to try and build an ossuary. I’d never heard the term before, Fran. But an ossuary is a bone grave. It is almost impossible, as you walk around this area, there are so many bones around that you do find fragments, and it happens all the time. Now an ossuary is an official bone grave where you give the pieces of bone, and they’re treated properly, and they’re placed in this ossuary. It’s going to be in the Seventh Field Ambulance Cemetery, which is north of the commemoration area, the new commemoration area that they set up in 2000. So that’s kind of a positive step forward but it is unfortunate that it has taken these roadworks to have that done.

FRAN KELLY: Mike, can I just ask you finally, when you rang the person from the War Graves Commission and said you’d found this bone, what was their reaction? Because there’s been no real confirmation, as I understand it, yet by the Australian and the Turkish governments that remains have been found. Did they seem shocked or horrified?

MIKE BOWERS: We got a mixed reception. We’ve spoken to a few of them. We had a very good reception from a couple of them, but disbelieving from others who said, ‘Well, this bone has probably been washed down there’. I said, ‘ Well, I’m not quite sure of the laws of physics. I’m not a physicist, but this was up on top of an embankment, so I don’t a large bone would have been able to be washed up that embankment’. So a bit of a mixed reception.

I think they’re shocked as well and running a little scared, I’ve got to say. They don’t quite know what to do with it. Especially, it’s so close to Anzac Day now, I don’t know how they’re going to have these roadworks anywhere near finished. There’s about four kilometres still to do of tarring, so they’re going quite late into the night.

FRAN KELLY: Okay, Mike. Thanks very much for joining us.

MIKE BOWERS: Thanks, Fran.

FRAN KELLY: We’ll talk to you again over the next week, I think. That’s Michael Bowers, the pictorial editor for the Sydney Morning Herald.

So when the anticipated 20,000-plus Australians arrive at Anzac Cove next week, as we’ve heard, the local topography will be markedly different from when the original Anzacs landed there 90 years ago. And although the roadworks were requested by the Australian government, Prime Minister John Howard has reportedly now asked officials on the ground there not to make any further modifications. But according to some experts, the stay in works has come too late to stop irreversible damage and, as we’ve just heard, the disturbance of human remains, even though the Australian authorities were warned as far back as 2003 that the site was littered with the bones of those who fought and died there.

The opposition says the Australian government is to blame because it failed to heed those warnings. And yesterday, the opposition released a letter from a Defence department officer, an archaeologist, Dr David Cameron, to the Leader of the Opposition, Kim Beazley, in which he detailed how he’d told the Office of War Graves in 2003 that they’d found human bones in the area now being disturbed by the bulldozers.

Anthony Albanese is the Opposition Shadow Minister for Environment and Heritage. Anthony, good morning.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Good morning.

FRAN KELLY: What does Dr Cameron say in his letter?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: What Dr Cameron does is outline in detail, as he has also on his website, the fact that himself and Dr Dowling, another Australian archaeologist, went to Anzac Cove and to the area in early 2003, that there they found human remains and other artefacts, that at that time they came back and reported in April 2003 to the Director of the Office of Australian War Graves. They provided him with their report.

That report very clearly said that the site was very vulnerable and sensitive, that there needed to be a further heritage assessment in order to ensure that the site was protected. They also spoke and reported to people, including people from the Department of Environment and Heritage, to the Australian Ambassador to Turkey and to other government officials. And essentially, they were fobbed off. Nothing was done, arising out of this report.

FRAN KELLY: What was done, we now know, is eventually roadworks were ordered. What should the government have done to protect the Gallipoli Peninsula given that there are now tens of thousands of people visiting every year? That does require some management and infrastructure to cope with an influx like that, doesn’t it?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Well, they should have done nothing more and nothing less than what the Prime Minister unequivocally said that they would do.

In December 2003, following this report, you had the Prime Minister standing up and declaring that Anzac Cove was the most important piece of land for all Australians and it would be the first site listed on the National Heritage list. Now that was intended to be a first step on the process to World Heritage listing and yet nothing occurred. The government then went ahead and requested these roadworks in August 2004 without putting in place, at the time of that request, any in advance heritage assessment of the roadworks and without putting in place any monitoring.

As I understand it, there still isn’t monitoring taking place on the site by Australian officials. We should have had, before you go into this scale of works, firstly an assessment of is it appropriate or not? And secondly, if any work is to occur, surely there should have been Australian archaeologists and experts on site monitoring these works.

FRAN KELLY: And just briefly then, what should happen now? The roadworks are still not finished. What happens now?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Well, unfortunately, I think the damage is done, just listening to Michael Bowers. What needs to occur though, is that the government needs to actually come clean about the information that it has. We asked questions of the Prime Minister in parliament on 17 March.

The Prime Minister said he wasn’t aware of the detail but he’ d get back to us. Dr Cameron wrote to the Prime Minister on 19 March and hasn’t even received a reply. This is contemptuous of Australian history by a Prime Minister who is happy to get a political advantage when he sees an opportunity but isn’t prepared to do the follow through and accept responsibility for the actions of the government.

FRAN KELLY: Okay, Anthony Albanese. Thanks very much for joining us on Breakfast.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Thank you.

FRAN KELLY: Anthony Albanese, Shadow Minister for the Environment and Heritage.

 

Apr 18, 2005

Breakfast: ANZAC Cove

Breakfast: ANZAC Cove

Monday, 18 April 2005

FRAN KELLY: At the end of the week, John Howard will fly out of China to Turkey to spend the 90th anniversary of the Gallipoli landing at Anzac Cove where controversy abounds over the construction of a new road. Intended to relieve pressure on the small war cemetery at Ari Burnu, the headland of Gallipoli, the road was meant to help the almost 25,000 Australian and Kiwis expected at this year’s dawn service to navigate their way between memorial sites. But instead the roadworks have disturbed artefacts and almost certainly some human remains of those who were killed in the historic battle, though the Australian and Turkish governments have been loathe to confirm this unpleasant fact.

Two observers who know Anzac Cove well are Jonathan King and Mike Bowers, authors of the book Gallipoli: untold stories. You might remember, we spoke to them a couple of weeks back about that new book. Mike Bowers is the pictorial editor for the Sydney Morning Herald and he joins us now from near Anzac Cove in Turkey. Mike, good morning.

MIKE BOWERS: Good morning, Fran.

FRAN KELLY: Mike, you’ve been there, to Anzac Cove, plenty of times. Are the roadworks as devastating as the critics argue? Does it look different?

MIKE BOWERS: I saw it on TV and I was prepared for it mentally, but when I saw it, I was shocked. It is an enormous roadwork and the change to Anzac Cove itself and, in fact, the whole way along beyond Anzac Cove—both ends—it is much more than … I was absolutely shocked when I saw it. It’s gone beyond what I thought it was.

FRAN KELLY: Mike, tell us a bit more about that in terms of, you know, people come and look at the landing sites and they clamber up the areas where the diggers clambered up. Are those sites still there or have those actual key points been disturbed by the roadwork?

MIKE BOWERS: Well, Anzac Cove is where, and particularly one point of Anzac Cove at the northern end, Ari Burnu, is where the Ninth Battalion first stepped ashore on 25 April in 1915. And Ari Burnu, I asked a Turkish interpreter today what it meant and he said in Turkish it meant ‘bee’s nose’, a bee as in a honeybee. That’s because of the shape of the spur that drops down into the water, where the Australians from the Ninth Battalion first stepped ashore. They’ve cut right through that, Fran, and it no longer looks like a bee’s nose; it looks more like a bee’s leg, a broken leg at that. There’s a large gouge or a reverse ‘L’ if you like, right-angled into the side of the hill, and they’ve taken an enormous amount out to widen it. In the widening process, the excess, they’ve dumped it down into Anzac Cove. And I read a little while ago when I was doing research for the book that in 1915, the beach was 25 metres wide. It was, of course, used as a supply dump for the entire campaign.

There are places now on Anzac Cove that are less than a metre or two metres wide from the high tide mark. Now what that means is that the beach is completely narrowed and there is a great tradition after the dawn service at Gallipoli that you walk along Anzac Cove. That’s now no longer possible in a few places, especially if the tide is high. So it has dramatically changed what that area is.

FRAN KELLY: And it changes, in a sense, the power of the retelling of the story, doesn’t it, because it doesn’t look the same any more? You can’t imagine how they tried to climb up that bee’s nose or cross that beach.

MIKE BOWERS: No, because it has now turned into a sheer cliff. And it’s quite ugly. It is exposed earth and I think there’s going to be a lot more erosion and I think that a lot more of the cove will get buried because of erosion and what’s going on.

FRAN KELLY: Mike, what about the claims that human bones have been unearthed during these roadworks? Have you been able to confirm that?

MIKE BOWERS: Yes. I was shocked. Yesterday, I was walking along with my translator, who was a few yards behind, and I was approached by one of the workers on the roads and I thought he was telling me that everything was going to be all right, or maybe having a go, because we are media, I had cameras all over me as I normally do. The translator caught up and he was in fact trying to tell me that he’d found a bone and he was waving this bone at me. It was quite a large bone. It turned out to be the upper part of a human arm. We had it looked at by a doctor. He showed it to us and then threw it back down on the rubble and we didn’t think it was right that the bone sort of stayed there, so we actually took it and we are giving it to the Commonwealth War Graves people tomorrow morning.

So yes, I can absolutely confirm that human remains have been found, and it was quite a shock. We’re less than seven days away from upwards of 25,000 record Australians, New Zealanders and people from all over the world coming in. It’s quite disturbing that there’s remains. My grandfather was lucky enough to live through this campaign but, if I’d lost a relative, I would be deeply shocked to walk past some roadworks and find human remains sticking out.

FRAN KELLY: Mike, it sort of conjures up an awful image, doesn’t it, of all these people clambering over the beach. When people are there, I think they look around for artefacts anyway. That’s just natural. If they’re coming up with human remains that have been unearthed, it’s not only undignified and disrespectful, it’s just wrong, isn’t it? What’s going to happen with these remains?

MIKE BOWERS: Well, one of the good things that’s come out of it—we were speaking to some War Graves people today. They’re going to try and build an ossuary. I’d never heard the term before, Fran. But an ossuary is a bone grave. It is almost impossible, as you walk around this area, there are so many bones around that you do find fragments, and it happens all the time. Now an ossuary is an official bone grave where you give the pieces of bone, and they’re treated properly, and they’re placed in this ossuary. It’s going to be in the Seventh Field Ambulance Cemetery, which is north of the commemoration area, the new commemoration area that they set up in 2000. So that’s kind of a positive step forward but it is unfortunate that it has taken these roadworks to have that done.

FRAN KELLY: Mike, can I just ask you finally, when you rang the person from the War Graves Commission and said you’d found this bone, what was their reaction? Because there’s been no real confirmation, as I understand it, yet by the Australian and the Turkish governments that remains have been found. Did they seem shocked or horrified?

MIKE BOWERS: We got a mixed reception. We’ve spoken to a few of them. We had a very good reception from a couple of them, but disbelieving from others who said, ‘Well, this bone has probably been washed down there’. I said, ‘ Well, I’m not quite sure of the laws of physics. I’m not a physicist, but this was up on top of an embankment, so I don’t a large bone would have been able to be washed up that embankment’. So a bit of a mixed reception.

I think they’re shocked as well and running a little scared, I’ve got to say. They don’t quite know what to do with it. Especially, it’s so close to Anzac Day now, I don’t know how they’re going to have these roadworks anywhere near finished. There’s about four kilometres still to do of tarring, so they’re going quite late into the night.

FRAN KELLY: Okay, Mike. Thanks very much for joining us.

MIKE BOWERS: Thanks, Fran.

FRAN KELLY: We’ll talk to you again over the next week, I think. That’s Michael Bowers, the pictorial editor for the Sydney Morning Herald.

So when the anticipated 20,000-plus Australians arrive at Anzac Cove next week, as we’ve heard, the local topography will be markedly different from when the original Anzacs landed there 90 years ago. And although the roadworks were requested by the Australian government, Prime Minister John Howard has reportedly now asked officials on the ground there not to make any further modifications. But according to some experts, the stay in works has come too late to stop irreversible damage and, as we’ve just heard, the disturbance of human remains, even though the Australian authorities were warned as far back as 2003 that the site was littered with the bones of those who fought and died there.

The opposition says the Australian government is to blame because it failed to heed those warnings. And yesterday, the opposition released a letter from a Defence department officer, an archaeologist, Dr David Cameron, to the Leader of the Opposition, Kim Beazley, in which he detailed how he’d told the Office of War Graves in 2003 that they’d found human bones in the area now being disturbed by the bulldozers.

Anthony Albanese is the Opposition Shadow Minister for Environment and Heritage. Anthony, good morning.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Good morning.

FRAN KELLY: What does Dr Cameron say in his letter?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: What Dr Cameron does is outline in detail, as he has also on his website, the fact that himself and Dr Dowling, another Australian archaeologist, went to Anzac Cove and to the area in early 2003, that there they found human remains and other artefacts, that at that time they came back and reported in April 2003 to the Director of the Office of Australian War Graves. They provided him with their report.

That report very clearly said that the site was very vulnerable and sensitive, that there needed to be a further heritage assessment in order to ensure that the site was protected. They also spoke and reported to people, including people from the Department of Environment and Heritage, to the Australian Ambassador to Turkey and to other government officials. And essentially, they were fobbed off. Nothing was done, arising out of this report.

FRAN KELLY: What was done, we now know, is eventually roadworks were ordered. What should the government have done to protect the Gallipoli Peninsula given that there are now tens of thousands of people visiting every year? That does require some management and infrastructure to cope with an influx like that, doesn’t it?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Well, they should have done nothing more and nothing less than what the Prime Minister unequivocally said that they would do.

In December 2003, following this report, you had the Prime Minister standing up and declaring that Anzac Cove was the most important piece of land for all Australians and it would be the first site listed on the National Heritage list. Now that was intended to be a first step on the process to World Heritage listing and yet nothing occurred. The government then went ahead and requested these roadworks in August 2004 without putting in place, at the time of that request, any in advance heritage assessment of the roadworks and without putting in place any monitoring.

As I understand it, there still isn’t monitoring taking place on the site by Australian officials. We should have had, before you go into this scale of works, firstly an assessment of is it appropriate or not? And secondly, if any work is to occur, surely there should have been Australian archaeologists and experts on site monitoring these works.

FRAN KELLY: And just briefly then, what should happen now? The roadworks are still not finished. What happens now?

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Well, unfortunately, I think the damage is done, just listening to Michael Bowers. What needs to occur though, is that the government needs to actually come clean about the information that it has. We asked questions of the Prime Minister in parliament on 17 March.

The Prime Minister said he wasn’t aware of the detail but he’ d get back to us. Dr Cameron wrote to the Prime Minister on 19 March and hasn’t even received a reply. This is contemptuous of Australian history by a Prime Minister who is happy to get a political advantage when he sees an opportunity but isn’t prepared to do the follow through and accept responsibility for the actions of the government.

FRAN KELLY: Okay, Anthony Albanese. Thanks very much for joining us on Breakfast.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: Thank you.

FRAN KELLY: Anthony Albanese, Shadow Minister for the Environment and Heritage.

 

Feb 16, 2005

AM – Kyoto Protocol – 16 February 2005

AM – Kyoto Protocol

Wednesday 16 February 2005

Climate change lawyer believes Australia and US will miss out on multi-billion dollar greenhouse trading market by failing to ratify the Kyoto Protocol

TONY EASTLEY: Australian coalminers and exporters are keenly watching what will happen today when, after a decade of haggling and intense lobbying, the Kyoto Protocol to cut back on greenhouse emissions will finally become law.

Countries party to the agreement must now meet their individual targets or face international penalties and diplomatic humiliation.

The protocol also allows for carbon trading which many people believe will become a multibillion dollar industry.

Given Australia and the United states have refused to ratify the deal, legal experts argue that both countries will now be locked out of what could be a very lucrative market.

Environment Reporter Sarah Clarke reports.

SARAH CLARKE: From now on, the 144 countries who ratified the deal are committed to a legally binding agreement to cut back on emissions.

If they fail, they’ll face the humiliation of appearing before a United Nations committee to explain. They’ll also face possible suspension from a new carbon trading market that many expect will be financially lucrative.

Martijn Wilder is a legal expert in climate change.

MARTIJN WILDER: There are predictions that the global market will be in the hundreds of billions of dollars. No one knows exactly what the size of the market will be, and it depends on the extent to which companies comply, but the market will certainly be, over time, a billion dollar trading market.

SARAH CLARKE: But Martijn Wilder says Australia and the United States will be locked out.

Both countries have refused to ratify the deal, which he says will put them both out in the cold.

MARTIJN WILDER: We simply, as a non-signatory, are not allowed to trade in that market.

SARAH CLARKE: Like the United States, Australia argues it’s not in their best interests to ratify, and the Howard Government is meeting the targets anyway.

Environment Minister, Ian Campbell, denies Australia will lose out financially to a multibillion dollar greenhouse trading market.

IAN CAMPBELL: Well the market is just beginning in Europe, it really is fledgling, it involves very few trade, so I think anyone who says that we’re missing out on this multibillion dollar market has no idea what they’re talking about.

And quite frankly, people who think that the protocol is the solution ignore the fact that during the period that the protocol is in force, that’s between 1990 and the year 2012, greenhouse gas emissions in the world will in fact go up by somewhere between 30 to 40 per cent.

So it’s ineffective and saying we should sign up to it, I think people who say that are really working against the best interests of the environment.

SARAH CLARKE: Labor describes the position as ludicrous.

Opposition spokesman Anthony Albanese.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: It simply doesn’t make sense for us to take what is essentially the pain of reaching the target but not want to the gain of having access to carbon markets and renewable energy technology markets.

SARAH CLARKE: But critics argue that even the Kyoto Protocol won’t be enough to make a significant dent in the problem of climate change.

If all countries meet their targets emissions will only be cut by two or three per cent.

Scientists argue a 60 per cent reduction is crucial if governments are to avoid wreaking catastrophic damage to the world’s climate systems.

TONY EASTLEY: Environment Reporter Sarah Clarke reporting.

 

Feb 16, 2005

AM – Kyoto Protocol – 16 February 2005

AM – Kyoto Protocol

Wednesday 16 February 2005

Climate change lawyer believes Australia and US will miss out on multi-billion dollar greenhouse trading market by failing to ratify the Kyoto Protocol

TONY EASTLEY: Australian coalminers and exporters are keenly watching what will happen today when, after a decade of haggling and intense lobbying, the Kyoto Protocol to cut back on greenhouse emissions will finally become law.

Countries party to the agreement must now meet their individual targets or face international penalties and diplomatic humiliation.

The protocol also allows for carbon trading which many people believe will become a multibillion dollar industry.

Given Australia and the United states have refused to ratify the deal, legal experts argue that both countries will now be locked out of what could be a very lucrative market.

Environment Reporter Sarah Clarke reports.

SARAH CLARKE: From now on, the 144 countries who ratified the deal are committed to a legally binding agreement to cut back on emissions.

If they fail, they’ll face the humiliation of appearing before a United Nations committee to explain. They’ll also face possible suspension from a new carbon trading market that many expect will be financially lucrative.

Martijn Wilder is a legal expert in climate change.

MARTIJN WILDER: There are predictions that the global market will be in the hundreds of billions of dollars. No one knows exactly what the size of the market will be, and it depends on the extent to which companies comply, but the market will certainly be, over time, a billion dollar trading market.

SARAH CLARKE: But Martijn Wilder says Australia and the United States will be locked out.

Both countries have refused to ratify the deal, which he says will put them both out in the cold.

MARTIJN WILDER: We simply, as a non-signatory, are not allowed to trade in that market.

SARAH CLARKE: Like the United States, Australia argues it’s not in their best interests to ratify, and the Howard Government is meeting the targets anyway.

Environment Minister, Ian Campbell, denies Australia will lose out financially to a multibillion dollar greenhouse trading market.

IAN CAMPBELL: Well the market is just beginning in Europe, it really is fledgling, it involves very few trade, so I think anyone who says that we’re missing out on this multibillion dollar market has no idea what they’re talking about.

And quite frankly, people who think that the protocol is the solution ignore the fact that during the period that the protocol is in force, that’s between 1990 and the year 2012, greenhouse gas emissions in the world will in fact go up by somewhere between 30 to 40 per cent.

So it’s ineffective and saying we should sign up to it, I think people who say that are really working against the best interests of the environment.

SARAH CLARKE: Labor describes the position as ludicrous.

Opposition spokesman Anthony Albanese.

ANTHONY ALBANESE: It simply doesn’t make sense for us to take what is essentially the pain of reaching the target but not want to the gain of having access to carbon markets and renewable energy technology markets.

SARAH CLARKE: But critics argue that even the Kyoto Protocol won’t be enough to make a significant dent in the problem of climate change.

If all countries meet their targets emissions will only be cut by two or three per cent.

Scientists argue a 60 per cent reduction is crucial if governments are to avoid wreaking catastrophic damage to the world’s climate systems.

TONY EASTLEY: Environment Reporter Sarah Clarke reporting.

 

Jan 27, 2005

PM – Climate Change

PM – Climate Change

Thursday 27 January 2005

Environment Minister states that US is focused on reducing global warming; shadow minister disagrees with minister

TANYA NOLAN: The Federal Government has defended the actions of the Bush administration in tackling climate change.

British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, has urged the United States to cooperate more with the rest of the world to slow the pace of global warming.

But Australia says it’s unfair to accuse the US of not being closely engaged with other nations in finding solutions to the environmental threat.

The debate’s been reignited as British researchers more than double current predictions on how far temperatures might rise.

Marie Scoutas has more.

MARIE SCOUTAS: At the World Economic Forum meeting in Davos, the British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, has warned if the international community’s going to succeed in tackling climate change, the United States needs to become more of a team player.

TONY BLAIR: If America wants the rest of the world to be part of the agenda it has set, it must be part of their agenda, too.

MARIE SCOUTAS: But the Federal Environment Minister, Ian Campbell, says the US is pulling its weight.

IAN CAMPBELL: I disagree with him to the extent that I think America is closely engaged. Clearly they haven’t signed up to the Kyoto Protocol and nor have Australia. We understand their reasons. I don’t think it’s fair to say the Americans are anything other than quite focused.

MARIE SCOUTAS: Senator Campbell is upbeat about global efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

IAN CAMPBELL: I’m very sort of optimistic about the future. I think the technologies are there, the governments are focused and the world is working on a process of further meetings.

We’ll be having a ministerial meeting around the G8 in London in March and further meetings throughout the year, so I think the international efforts and our domestic efforts will lead to good outcomes beyond Kyoto.

MARIE SCOUTAS: The Shadow Environment Minister, Anthony Albanese, says that’s a convenient view.

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  He clearly, and the Howard Government had got itself in a position where they’re isolated, along with the Bush administration, on the need to take global action on climate change.

You had Tony Blair’s speech today. Two days ago you had the release of the International Climate Change Taskforce Report that reported that the global community has less than a decade.

MARIE SCOUTAS: Further scientific evidence has been released today on just how dramatic the changes in climate might be.

A study by British researchers predicts temperatures could rise by between two and 11.5 degrees, more than doubling the range predicted by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

The study led by researchers at Oxford University drew on modelling by 95,000 computers around the world.

An Australian scientist who participated in the project, Dr Nick Hoffman from the University of Melbourne, says the findings should be taken seriously.

NICK HOFFMAN: The project is very credible because we’ve run these simulations. Now the exact model may not be perfect, but it’s shown us a wide range of outcomes. The model runs have shown us what the range of outcomes is. One of those outcomes is going to be what’s going to happen to the Earth, and most of the outcomes are not very pretty.

MARIE SCOUTAS: The British researchers say they’ll try and reduce that uncertainty by improving their computer models.

The broader issue of international political action is expected to be revisited by Mr Blair, given he’s vowed to use his leadership of the G8 group of nations and the European Union this year to push for more urgent action.

TANYA NOLAN: Marie Scoutas reporting.

 

Jan 27, 2005

PM – ALP members focus on electing a new leader

PM – ALP members focus on electing a new leader

Thursday 27 January 2005

TANYA NOLAN: As Labor looks forward to a fresh start tomorrow, with the election of Kim Beazley as its leader, one frontbencher is imploring his colleagues, to quote "shut up" about the Party’s internal problems.

It’s been seven weeks since Labor MPs were last in Canberra and they’d hoped to put behind them the bitterness and division that wracked the Party after its election defeat.

Instead, Mark Latham’s resignation as leader has forced the 87 MPs and Senators to head back to the capital more than a week earlier than they’d planned.

And after he is installed as Party leader unopposed at tomorrow’s Caucus meeting, Kim Beazley has promised to detail his plans to restore Labor’s credibility.

From Canberra, Kim Landers reports.

KIM LANDERS: Labor MPs and Senators are trickling back into Canberra, jetting in at taxpayers’ expense from around the country, climbing into their Comcars and heading to Parliament for tomorrow’s Caucus meeting to rubberstamp Kim Beazley as their new leader.

STEPHEN SMITH: OK, well firstly it’s nice to be back in Canberra.

KIM LANDERS: West Australian MP Stephen Smith is one of the Beazley backers.

With Kevin Rudd and then Julia Gillard bowing out of the leadership race, Stephen Smith is now calling on all his colleagues to put their differences behind them.

STEPHEN SMITH: Yes we have been a bit messy in the last couple of weeks, and in the last couple of days. I’m not pretending otherwise. But as I said, that’s not necessarily a completely bad thing. People do get the chance to get things off their chest.

And yes, there will be personal disappointments around but that will be nothing like, nothing like the disappointment which will come if we lose an election in three year’s time, or if we lose the Werriwa by-election in a few weeks or a few months.

KIM LANDERS: Kevin Rudd puts it a little more bluntly.

KEVIN RUDD: It’s time Labor just shut up about itself and started instead focusing on the Howard Government.

KIM LANDERS: Fellow frontbencher, Anthony Albanese, is also keen to dispel any lingering friction.

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  We as a group need to start talking to the Australian people about them, not about us and about each other, about what we will do for them rather than people’s personal ambitions and tomorrow I think is an appropriate time to draw a line in the sand.

KIM LANDERS: His catch cry for unity is echoed too by Shadow Treasurer, Wayne Swan.

WAYNE SWAN: Well I think it’s just important that everybody in the Party comes together and that’s certainly what I’ll be doing, that’s my objective, thanks very much.

KIM LANDERS: Kim Beazley is already thanking his colleagues for their support in tomorrow’s ballot, repeating his promise to be more inclusive.

As to how this soon-to-be recycled leader will make a fresh start, Kim Beazley is promising to articulate at length some of his policy vision, including on key issues like Iraq and Labor foreign policy, after he becomes leader.

KIM BEAZLEY: I’m going to go through that tomorrow in very great detail with you. What I’m not going to do now is presume. Caucus is still to make its decision. There are, at present, as you know, no other candidates in the field and I do express my gratitude to the two who were, who subsequently decided to withdraw, and the kind and useful things they said.

KIM LANDERS: Labor backbencher, Lindsay Tanner, is one of those pressing for a fresh policy start. He warns a new leader alone can’t restore Labor’s credibility.

LINDSAY TANNER: Obviously leadership is crucial, but our problems about economic credibility, about our policy position and about the lack of attractiveness to voters over the past nine years go way beyond just the question of who the leader is or how the leader performs. But what really matters is substance, policies and coherence.

KIM LANDERS: But whether a Beazley-led Labor team can get into shape for an election win in just under three years, not even Labor’s most senior Premier, Bob Carr, is willing to go that far.

BOB CARR: You never predict election outcomes three years off. You never do it. But we’ve got to get, Federal Labor has got to reshape itself as a viable opposition. It’s got to become viable, it’s got to have unity and it’s got to start focusing on policies.

TANYA NOLAN: New South Wales Premier, Bob Carr.

 

Jan 27, 2005

PM – ALP members focus on electing a new leader

PM – ALP members focus on electing a new leader

Thursday 27 January 2005

TANYA NOLAN: As Labor looks forward to a fresh start tomorrow, with the election of Kim Beazley as its leader, one frontbencher is imploring his colleagues, to quote "shut up" about the Party’s internal problems.

It’s been seven weeks since Labor MPs were last in Canberra and they’d hoped to put behind them the bitterness and division that wracked the Party after its election defeat.

Instead, Mark Latham’s resignation as leader has forced the 87 MPs and Senators to head back to the capital more than a week earlier than they’d planned.

And after he is installed as Party leader unopposed at tomorrow’s Caucus meeting, Kim Beazley has promised to detail his plans to restore Labor’s credibility.

From Canberra, Kim Landers reports.

KIM LANDERS: Labor MPs and Senators are trickling back into Canberra, jetting in at taxpayers’ expense from around the country, climbing into their Comcars and heading to Parliament for tomorrow’s Caucus meeting to rubberstamp Kim Beazley as their new leader.

STEPHEN SMITH: OK, well firstly it’s nice to be back in Canberra.

KIM LANDERS: West Australian MP Stephen Smith is one of the Beazley backers.

With Kevin Rudd and then Julia Gillard bowing out of the leadership race, Stephen Smith is now calling on all his colleagues to put their differences behind them.

STEPHEN SMITH: Yes we have been a bit messy in the last couple of weeks, and in the last couple of days. I’m not pretending otherwise. But as I said, that’s not necessarily a completely bad thing. People do get the chance to get things off their chest.

And yes, there will be personal disappointments around but that will be nothing like, nothing like the disappointment which will come if we lose an election in three year’s time, or if we lose the Werriwa by-election in a few weeks or a few months.

KIM LANDERS: Kevin Rudd puts it a little more bluntly.

KEVIN RUDD: It’s time Labor just shut up about itself and started instead focusing on the Howard Government.

KIM LANDERS: Fellow frontbencher, Anthony Albanese, is also keen to dispel any lingering friction.

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  We as a group need to start talking to the Australian people about them, not about us and about each other, about what we will do for them rather than people’s personal ambitions and tomorrow I think is an appropriate time to draw a line in the sand.

KIM LANDERS: His catch cry for unity is echoed too by Shadow Treasurer, Wayne Swan.

WAYNE SWAN: Well I think it’s just important that everybody in the Party comes together and that’s certainly what I’ll be doing, that’s my objective, thanks very much.

KIM LANDERS: Kim Beazley is already thanking his colleagues for their support in tomorrow’s ballot, repeating his promise to be more inclusive.

As to how this soon-to-be recycled leader will make a fresh start, Kim Beazley is promising to articulate at length some of his policy vision, including on key issues like Iraq and Labor foreign policy, after he becomes leader.

KIM BEAZLEY: I’m going to go through that tomorrow in very great detail with you. What I’m not going to do now is presume. Caucus is still to make its decision. There are, at present, as you know, no other candidates in the field and I do express my gratitude to the two who were, who subsequently decided to withdraw, and the kind and useful things they said.

KIM LANDERS: Labor backbencher, Lindsay Tanner, is one of those pressing for a fresh policy start. He warns a new leader alone can’t restore Labor’s credibility.

LINDSAY TANNER: Obviously leadership is crucial, but our problems about economic credibility, about our policy position and about the lack of attractiveness to voters over the past nine years go way beyond just the question of who the leader is or how the leader performs. But what really matters is substance, policies and coherence.

KIM LANDERS: But whether a Beazley-led Labor team can get into shape for an election win in just under three years, not even Labor’s most senior Premier, Bob Carr, is willing to go that far.

BOB CARR: You never predict election outcomes three years off. You never do it. But we’ve got to get, Federal Labor has got to reshape itself as a viable opposition. It’s got to become viable, it’s got to have unity and it’s got to start focusing on policies.

TANYA NOLAN: New South Wales Premier, Bob Carr.

 

Jan 27, 2005

PM – Climate Change

PM – Climate Change

Thursday 27 January 2005

Environment Minister states that US is focused on reducing global warming; shadow minister disagrees with minister

TANYA NOLAN: The Federal Government has defended the actions of the Bush administration in tackling climate change.

British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, has urged the United States to cooperate more with the rest of the world to slow the pace of global warming.

But Australia says it’s unfair to accuse the US of not being closely engaged with other nations in finding solutions to the environmental threat.

The debate’s been reignited as British researchers more than double current predictions on how far temperatures might rise.

Marie Scoutas has more.

MARIE SCOUTAS: At the World Economic Forum meeting in Davos, the British Prime Minister, Tony Blair, has warned if the international community’s going to succeed in tackling climate change, the United States needs to become more of a team player.

TONY BLAIR: If America wants the rest of the world to be part of the agenda it has set, it must be part of their agenda, too.

MARIE SCOUTAS: But the Federal Environment Minister, Ian Campbell, says the US is pulling its weight.

IAN CAMPBELL: I disagree with him to the extent that I think America is closely engaged. Clearly they haven’t signed up to the Kyoto Protocol and nor have Australia. We understand their reasons. I don’t think it’s fair to say the Americans are anything other than quite focused.

MARIE SCOUTAS: Senator Campbell is upbeat about global efforts to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

IAN CAMPBELL: I’m very sort of optimistic about the future. I think the technologies are there, the governments are focused and the world is working on a process of further meetings.

We’ll be having a ministerial meeting around the G8 in London in March and further meetings throughout the year, so I think the international efforts and our domestic efforts will lead to good outcomes beyond Kyoto.

MARIE SCOUTAS: The Shadow Environment Minister, Anthony Albanese, says that’s a convenient view.

ANTHONY ALBANESE:  He clearly, and the Howard Government had got itself in a position where they’re isolated, along with the Bush administration, on the need to take global action on climate change.

You had Tony Blair’s speech today. Two days ago you had the release of the International Climate Change Taskforce Report that reported that the global community has less than a decade.

MARIE SCOUTAS: Further scientific evidence has been released today on just how dramatic the changes in climate might be.

A study by British researchers predicts temperatures could rise by between two and 11.5 degrees, more than doubling the range predicted by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change.

The study led by researchers at Oxford University drew on modelling by 95,000 computers around the world.

An Australian scientist who participated in the project, Dr Nick Hoffman from the University of Melbourne, says the findings should be taken seriously.

NICK HOFFMAN: The project is very credible because we’ve run these simulations. Now the exact model may not be perfect, but it’s shown us a wide range of outcomes. The model runs have shown us what the range of outcomes is. One of those outcomes is going to be what’s going to happen to the Earth, and most of the outcomes are not very pretty.

MARIE SCOUTAS: The British researchers say they’ll try and reduce that uncertainty by improving their computer models.

The broader issue of international political action is expected to be revisited by Mr Blair, given he’s vowed to use his leadership of the G8 group of nations and the European Union this year to push for more urgent action.

TANYA NOLAN: Marie Scoutas reporting.

 

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