SUBJECT: Labor’s proposal for a national anti-scam centre.
 
STEPHEN CENATIEMPO, HOST: There's a certain irony to this next interview I'm about to do. Because on Friday, I spent about an hour on the phone to my bank because there was about $700 worth of fraudulent credit card charges charged to my credit card, which kind of ties into the online frauds and scams that are happening right across the country at the moment. And we see that the numbers just seem to be on the increase every year. Well, the Federal ALP has vowed to crack down on online fraud and scams if they win the next Federal election by putting a national anti-scam centre together. And making his third appearance on the program, and I might point out that the Prime Minister still refuses to talk to us, but Federal Opposition Leader, Anthony Albanese, is with us. Albo, good morning.
 
ANTHONY ALBANESE, LEADER OF THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY: Good morning, Stephen. Good to be with you.
 
CENATIEMPO: Some people are suggesting this is a solution looking for a problem because we already have programs in place, or facilities in place, to crack down on scams. But what are you trying to do here? What's the aim of this?
 
ALBANESE: Well, this is a solution to a very real problem, Stephen. Now, you're an articulate bloke, who's a radio presenter, imagine all those people out there who don't have the skills that you have to get onto their bank to raise these issues when they've been scammed. Now, the scamming level is up to an estimated $33 billion just from criminal activity every year. Now, that's mums and dads, that's young people, that's old people in particular often are targeted by these scams, losing their money to criminals both here and overseas. And what we know is every one of your listeners would know from their own experience that there are more unrequested messages poking up in their feeds, that some of the responses that are there, certainly whenever I do, I make complaints about this, I do Instagram posts, you'll have people in the comment section saying, 'Hi, I made however much off this particular thing. Jenny helped me and I never thought it would happen'. And it's all a scam. People out there would know also phone calls, often from Australia numbers, but sometimes with a plus, there is some other number popping up there from a place in Russia or somewhere else making a call to you unsuggested. You get messages saying that they're from your bank and if you could just click on this because someone else has taken money from you. This is more and more common. We need to address it and not be complacent.
 
CENATIEMPO: No doubt. Look, in principle I think you're onto something here. But I just wonder about the practicalities of it. And surely, we need to take responsibility for ourselves not clicking on these nefarious links. But as a Federal Government, what can you actually do about it given that most of these operators are operating offshore?
 
ALBANESE: What we can do is what other governments are doing. The United Kingdom, Canada, other countries have set up these centres. They work with telcos. We want to establish a new code of practice to make sure that they take action themselves. And just like we were very supportive last year of the action that was taken about Facebook and Google to make sure that the media could get its fair share of payment for its work to support journalists, it's important that this be coordinated. Individuals can't do it, Stephen. You need strong government action. This is an epidemic. It is just terrible what is going on. And this is a practical solution based upon international best practice to basically defend people. Because as I said, yes, people should be responsible, but for a whole lot of people out there who haven't seen the sort of messages before they click on, they're trusting or it's late at night or they've just woken up, they haven't thought things through, this is an opportunity as well for us to even through this conversation give people a reminder to not just click on something without thinking about it. But the truth is people do up to the tune of up to at least $33 billion every year.
 
CENATIEMPO: Why do you need an added level of bureaucracy like a national anti-scam centre rather than just legislation putting it back on the telcos to make sure that this kind of stuff isn't getting through?
 
ALBANESE: Well, that's why you need to liaise with the telcos about what the problem is. You need also to have a centre. Because one of the things, and you will have noticed this yourself in your own experience, the methods change. You don't any more get from Nigeria, the 'Hi, Mr Cenatiempo, you have won two million dollars, we wish to transfer'. That's ended. They've got more sophisticated. And that's why you need a centre that can keep up with the game here, that has a simple charter of protecting Australians against these scams.
 
CENATIEMPO: So, who do you put in this centre? Reformed hackers? Who's going to staff it?
 
ALBANESE: Well, it would be some smart people who are aware of, obviously, IT and how it works. I'm sure we would have no trouble recruiting people for this task. We have very good security agencies across a range of areas. It has been my great privilege to meet people there in Canberra at places like the Australian Signals Directorate. And I will tell you what. There's a lot of people out there who know a lot more than you or I about these things. And I'm sure we would have no trouble recruiting people who could do the job.
 
CENATIEMPO: Probably people out there that know a lot more than you and I about most things, Albo.
 
ALBANESE: Don't be harsh on yourself.
 
CENATIEMPO: Good to talk to you, mate. Thanks for your time.
 
ALBANESE: Good on you, Stephen.
 
ENDS