SUBJECTS: Fast rail from Sydney to Newcastle; Labor’s strategic fleet announcement; Labor’s policy agenda; Federal election.

JOE HILDEBRAND, HOST: Anthony Albanese, welcome to Afternoons. 

ANTHONY ALBANESE, LEADER OF THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY: G’day Joe, good to have a chat. 

HILDEBRAND: Likewise. Thanks for having a chat to us. Can you give a guarantee that if a Labor Government is elected later this year that you will govern from the centre and not be beholden to hard left views and that same class war rhetoric that seems to have cost Bill Shorten the election last time around? 

ALBANESE: Well, doesn't it say it all, that the Treasurer of Australia spends his time peddling stuff dug up by the dirt unit and distorted of the Federal Government. A bloke who has presided over a trillion dollars of debt, real wages going backwards not keeping up with the cost of living, the bloke who's undertaken no economic reform and has presided over the first recession in three decades. And what he hasn't done, what I noticed about the article today was there was not a single criticism of anything that I did as a Minister in the Government for six years, with serious economic portfolios of infrastructure, transport, regional development, communications, where I set up Infrastructure Australia, which was a body that still exists. I was the first Infrastructure Minister, but I set it up in a bipartisan way. I had serious people running it, Sir Rod Eddington. 

HILDEBRAND: I certainly appreciate that. I do understand that and you've made some very, you know, you were to the right of Bill Shorten for a while when he was Labor Leader and sounding like he was the one from the left. Can you give our listeners though, an undertaking that the Labor Party you lead will not be captive to that sort of class war mentality and the politics of envy. And will be governing from the centre? 

ALBANESE: Yes, you can look at what I've done. Joe, as you're aware, with the creation of Infrastructure, Australia, the creation of Regional Development, Australia, which is still there - an economic reform that I created, working with business, working with unions, bringing people together. I created the Australian Council of Local Government. Look at what I've done. Politicians can say anything. And Josh Frydenberg is an example of that, full of full of rhetoric and wind. You look at what they've actually done, you look at the climate policy I've announced, for example, something that Josh Frydenberg as energy minister could never land. I've landed a policy that has been supported not just by the ACTU but the Business Council of Australia, Australian Industry Group, the National Farmers Federation, and the Australian Chamber of Commerce. The Government I lead will end the climate wars.

HILDEBRAND: God willing hope. We need to move on. I think I think the problem is that people see comments like the outrageous comments by Lydia Thorpe and they think, well hang on. That's what the hard left is saying that's from the Greens Labor relies on Greens preferences, and that means that the Party is always going to have it strings pulled to some extent or another. 

ALBANESE: That's nonsense Joe and you know that you know, that no one has fought the Greens political party harder than I have. In my local seat of the inner west. We've just achieved an absolute majority of Labor Party councillors on the Inner West Council. We've put forward practical policies at each level of government that make a difference to people's lives, that marginalise the sort of fringe issues that they're concerned with. I mean Lydia Thorpe doesn't even support a constitutional change to have a Voice to Parliament. Doesn't support the Uluru Statement from the Heart. Lydia Thorpe's comments last week were just unbelievable, which would appear to have defended the outrageous attacks, is what it was, on the Old Parliament House. That's that's not the way to promote change, and have a look at what I've done. The only coalition in Australian politics after the next election is of course the Liberal and National Parties, where Josh Frydenberg when he was Energy Minister couldn't land an energy policy because Barnaby Joyce, couldn't agree with him. So they knocked off Malcolm Turnbull and replaced him, as the Minister. 

HILDEBRAND: We've all been there. 

ALBANESE: I want to lead a majority government in my own right. 

HILDEBRAND: No deals with the Greens whatsoever no matter what, even if it cost you the government?

ALBANESE: Correct. I'm the only person after next election, who's actually seeking to have a majority government. What Scott Morrison is seeking to do is to stay hamstrung, and run by Barnaby Joyce, where he has to get permission. 

HILDEBRAND: And a lot of listeners are writing in saying can you just answer the question? Can you give a guarantee here and now that Labor will govern from the centre, from the mainstream and not be beholden? 

ALBANESE: Yes. But words don't mean that mean much Joe, have a look at what I've done. I have a record in public life and the fact that Josh Frydenberg, wrote a smear sheet, essentially, in the Australian, that talks about a whole range of what other people have done, and other people have said, didn't have a single criticism of myself, as a senior minister in the government says at all, I've been Leader of the Opposition now for three years. And they haven't raised any criticism of my record as a senior minister, because it's a good one. Because it's one that worked with business, that worked with unions, that work with the community, that had serious economic reform, something that Josh Frydenberg, this lightweight Treasurer could only dream of.

HILDEBRAND: Let's talk policy then. Let's talk about this, this plan of yours for boats and trains. Firstly, boats, you've called for a strategic fleet of 12 ships. Now, how will that actually work? Australian flagged but there'll be commercial vessels. And there'll be what doing their own thing, except in times of crisis, when the government will be able to call on them to fill gaps in the supply chain? Just talk us through that.

ALBANESE: That's it. That's exactly right. One of the things that happened during the pandemic is we've realised how vulnerable the Australian economy is to shocks. And in terms of supply chain, if you don't have an Australian shipping industry, then you're vulnerable over your fuel security, you're vulnerable at the moment, there's one of the components for diesel that is very important for industry, that we're running massively short of. And we also run the risk of losing the skills that come from having an Australian shipping industry, it's just disappearing. And overseas, the United States, a bipartisan position, doesn't matter. Even Trump and Biden agree on the need for a US fleet. And they have it because they recognise as well there's a link between the defence industry and the merchant fleet. 

HILDEBRAND: And how many Australian flagged ships are there? Is it still just 14? Because that's a tiny number. 

ALBANESE: Yeah, yeah. It's tiny. And it used to be up in the order of 50 to 60 decades ago, we have seen it decline, one by one ships leave the the shore be replaced by flags of convenience with foreign workers being paid foreign wages, often exploited. We've seen the other issue is every time there's been an incident on the coast, like there was with a ship snagged on the reef of Gladstone, of course it was a foreign flagged vessel, where the captain of that ship, of course got charged. But Australian ships with Australian workers on them, Australian seafarers Australian industry, know the coast, they know the country. There are so many advantages of this, which is why the industry body, made up of Australian shipping industry, unions, and indeed, many businesses and ports, understand how important this is.

HILDEBRAND: And would this be a commitment to making sure that number never fell below 12? or would this be putting another 12 ships on the on the water? On top of what was there?

ALBANESE: Well this would be a strategic fleet particularly looking at what are the things that that you absolutely need, for example, ships that are able to carry fuel supply ships that are able to have a diversification so that we were not vulnerable to shocks in the supply chain. 

HILDEBRAND: So ensuring we had the right mix of Australian flagged ships to make sure we can get you know, fuel or whatever. 

ALBANESE: Essential so that we're able to defend our national interest.

HILDEBRAND: And you've obviously and I know you're a fan of fast trains I am too you know, I'm a soft touch on this. But you've committed half a billion dollars to a fast train between Sydney and Newcastle. We're talking times that potentially 45 minutes between the two cities. This is something that the Commission for Greater Sydney cities, you see the Commission for Greater Sydney but it's now the Commission for Greater Cities, because we're looking at Newcastle and Wollongong as being part of the Greater Sydney metropolitan area. They've put this on their wish list, you've now said there'll be half a billion dollars for it. Is this real money? Or is this going to just be yet another feasibility study that goes nowhere?

ALBANESE: This is real money, for preservation of the corridor, for the planning work, for the early works to commence. I want to work with the state government, whoever is in government in New South Wales to progress this, I want to work with local governments. I want to work with industry. And I want to work with the former Committee for Sydney. Because they've been strong supporters of this as well. I did a lot of work as minister, we did the feasibility studies. And we know that it makes economic sense. It's good for jobs. It's good for decentralisation, it's good for businesses to locate in Newcastle and on the Central Coast, but it's also good for those people who commute. It's good for road safety and good for the environment. This is a win win win. You know, Joe, we're the only inhabited continent, on the planet, that is not investing in the expansion of high speed rail. We don't have any, every other continent on the planet is rolling it out. Because it makes so much sense. It's convenient, a great way to travel, it's safe. And we need to get on with with this nation building infrastructure.

HILDEBRAND: So can we say that if a Labor Government is elected this year, we will get high speed rail between Sydney and Newcastle finally, after all these decades.

ALBANESE: Correct and it will take time, no one's pretending it'll take, you know, a year or two. It's the major project but it's a transformational project. One that really makes a difference. And the national government should be involved in transformational projects, not just colour coded pork barreling and car parks, it should be involved in the big picture. And when I was last the infrastructure minister and had that privilege, we built a whole range of light rail in the Gulf Coast. We of course funded the Redcliffe rail line that was first talked about in 1895. It took a Labor Government to actually get it done. And people are commuting on that today - making a difference there. I know you're broadcasting into into that area through 4BC, and the good people of Redcliffe Peninsula are benefiting from that infrastructure today.

HILDEBRAND: And finally, the Greens have - and I'm always surprised this wasn't the front page of every single paper in the country. What do you think of the Greens plan to ban horse racing?

ALBANESE: It's just another thought bubble. The Greens have one seat out of more than, you know, 151 seats that are there in the federal parliament. You know, it's just another thought bubble that has no understanding of - not just of modern life in this way and the enjoyment that people get out of horse racing. And we need to make sure that animals involved are of course, protected and their welfare looked after. But overwhelmingly, people involved in horse racing love horses. They love them. And people, men and women, have been jumping on the back of horses and guess what they've been racing. Long before Randwick was there. For thousands and thousands and thousands of years. 

HILDEBRAND: Long before the greens were there as well. 

ALBANESE: This is just another example of a thought bubble from the Greens. 

HILDEBRAND: There's no way Labor would ever let anything like that happen?

ALBANESE: Look at it's just a bizarre proposal. But they're a bizarre party from time to time they've come up with strange things so that they get some attention - you shouldn't give them less attention.

HILDEBRAND: I know but gee whizz it has set off some of our listeners. And just I know you've said it before, but just to reiterate Labor will not enter into any power sharing arrangements with the Greens whatsoever, full stop, no matter what.

ALBANESE: No, No, absolutely not. And the only the only majority government that you can get after the next election is a Labor one.

HILDEBRAND: Okay, great. Well, Opposition Leader Anthony Albanese, happy new year and thank you very much for joining us on Afternoons.

ALBANESE: Happy new year to you and all of your listeners. Greetings from beautiful Newcastle.

HILDEBRAND: Beautiful, and it's going to get a fast rail pretty soon. 

ENDS