SUBJECTS: Vaccine rollout; ATAGI advice; AstraZeneca; need for national quarantine facilities; Scott Morrison failing Australians during a pandemic; Federal Government failing to deliver.

JIM WILSON, HOST: G'day, Albo. 

ANTHONY ALBANESE, LEADER OF THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY: G'day Jim. Great to be with you. 

WILSON: Nice to have you on the show, mate. Now, tell us, I believe you want to respond to the Energy Minister, Angus Taylor, who spoke to my colleague, Deb Knight, earlier today. He claims you're missing in action when it comes to people getting the AstraZeneca vaccine. What do you want to say? We're giving you a right of reply.

ALBANESE: Well, the bloke is a numpty. I haven't had a day off since May. I have been working each and every day. And each and every day, I point out that we don't have enough vaccines. I want people to be vaccinated. The problem has been there's not enough vaccines available, including, of course, in New South Wales, the Premier, again, requesting additional vaccines for New South Wales. And the whole way through this, we've said there is as need, an urgent need, to vaccinate Australians. It is the Prime Minister who said it wasn't a race. And we now know that it was a race. We're running last in the developed world. And as a result, not enough people are vaccinated. And the other issue, of course, is quarantine. They haven't fixed that either. And as a result, we've had 28 breaches from quarantine. I just found it extraordinary, the desperation of the Government to somehow run this sledge out this afternoon on the program. What they need to do - they are the Government, they're in the position to get additional vaccines, and to get them out to people. But I, of course, have from day one encouraged people to be vaccinated.

WILSON: But the additional vaccines you talk about, it's like you don't even think AstraZeneca exists. 

ALBANESE: No. It is the Premier who has asked for additional vaccines.

WILSON: Let's cut to the chase here, Albo. I had some comments about this yesterday as well. I think you've completely and utterly you haven't talked up AstraZeneca at all.

ALBANESE: That is nonsense. It is the Prime Minister who held a press conference and announced changes to AstraZeneca that needed the stopping of AstraZeneca for under-60-year-olds. He did that late at night. Greg Hunt, the Health Minister, said that people could wait for the additional vaccines. I've never been critical of AstraZeneca. What I've said, very clearly, is that people should listen to the health advice.

WILSON: Just on that, the ATAGI advice, that's the expert panel of vaccine experts, this is science, this is fact, this is the truth talking, let me read this to you. 'All individuals aged 18 years and above in Greater Sydney, including adults under 60 years of age, should strongly consider getting vaccinated with any available vaccine including COVID-19 vaccine AstraZeneca.

ALBANESE: I agree.

WILSON: 'This is on the basis of the increasing risk of COVID-19 and ongoing constraints of Pfizer suppliers. In addition, people in areas where outbreaks are occurring can receive the second dose of the AstraZeneca vaccine four to eight weeks after the first dose, rather than the usual 12 weeks to bring forward optimal protection'. Albo, can you categorically just clarify your view?

ALBANESE: I agree. 

WILSON: Okay. So why don't you talk up and offer bipartisan support for the vaccine? 

ALBANESE: That is ridiculous. We are talking about something that isn't there. 

WILSON: There are millions of supplies on the shelf, Albo.

ALBANESE: Can't you take yes for an answer? 

WILSON: I know you're saying you're agreeing, Albo. But the bottom line is your public statements on AstraZeneca...

ALBANESE: Not right. Show me where I've been critical.

WILSON: Well, you're looking ahead and saying the supplies aren't here and we've got to look ahead to next year.

ALBANESE: No. I didn't say that at all. I said neither of those things. What I said was the news report that you just had on 2GB that you just broadcast across your radio station said the New South Wales Premier has again requested additional vaccines.

WILSON: Additional Pfizer. That's right. Can you just clarify one thing once and for all for me? What is your position on the AstraZeneca vaccine, and do you encourage people over the age of 18 to have it?

ALBANESE: I encourage people to do what the advice is, which is to talk to their doctors about getting it.

WILSON: Well, ATAGI says anyone over the age of 18 to consult a GP, and if you can have the AstraZeneca, get the AstraZeneca. So you're backing that in?

ALBANESE: I agree. As I have without exception, Jim. Show me a quote. I've done a lot of press conferences every day.

WILSON: I just feel like you've played politics here, Albo.

ALBANESE: When? 

WILSON: I just feel like you haven't got on board with the science. You haven't got on board with it.

ALBANESE: I have done the opposite, Jim. 

WILSON: Well, how about your Tweet yesterday? Your Tweet yesterday was hardly an endorsement for AstraZeneca. You're talking up Pfizer. There are millions of supplies on the shelf of AstraZeneca. Let's get jabs in arms, Albo. 

ALBANESE: The Premier that you just quoted is the Liberal Premier of New South Wales. At no stage have I done anything other than to say we should listen to the health advice. That is all I have said. 

WILSON: Your Tweet yesterday, '51 million doses delayed until 2022. Australians want the jab. They want to be safe'. 

ALBANESE: That is right. 

WILSON: Well, there's AstraZeneca available now.

ALBANESE: That was about Novavax. That is a fact. 

WILSON: But how about the AstraZeneca which is in abundance of over-supply. How about we encourage Australians to get the AstraZeneca vaccine that's available, Albo?

ALBANESE: The fact is that this Government have not even had an effective advertising campaign, which is one of the things I've called for, in order to get people vaccinated. This is a desperate Government. It said it wasn't a race. I didn't agree with them. They changed the advice on AstraZeneca on multiple occasions. The Prime Minister held a press conference late at night, which caused a great deal of confusion out there in the community. That's not me. That's the Prime Minister. 

WILSON: So you're comfortable with Ed Husic telling Sky News yesterday that the national vaccine rollout program has been a blunder and we don't have enough supply, we don't have anything manufactured here. We manufacture AstraZeneca in Melbourne. 

ALBANESE: You're having Brad Hazzard on this afternoon. Ask him what he thinks about the supply. The New South Wales Liberal Government every day has in their press conferences spoken about supply. What we've had is older Australians were all told, people in aged care were told, that they'd be vaccinated by Easter. Aged care workers, half of aged care workers still aren't vaccinated. As of earlier this week, five per cent of those workers, and I've spoken with Ben Fordham on this radio station about this, as of this week, five per cent of those aged care workers working with homecare, that is visiting multiple elderly Australians, have been vaccinated. There has been a massive blunder when it comes to the rollout of this vaccine.

WILSON: What do you say to the new candidate for Higgins, your new candidate, who has basically talked AstraZeneca down? She advised a young man, just let me finish, Albo, I'm going to give you your say, just let me finish. She advised a young man on the ABC to wait for Pfizer. I mean, surely comments like this have added to the AstraZeneca hesitancy and the demonising of the vaccine. 

ALBANESE: Hang on. That was the advice that the Prime Minister gave when he did a press conference and said that it was the advice from ATAGI was not to have AstraZeneca for under-60s. 

WILSON: And that's now changed, Albo. ATAGI has changed their advice, Albo. 

ALBANESE: And the clip you're talking about isn't since the changed advice. 

WILSON: It just seems to me that you are talking down the AstraZeneca vaccine, which is a perfectly effective and safe vaccine, Albo. 

ALBANESE: Jim, the Prime Minister did the press conference. What I have done is, the whole way through, spoken about the fact that this is a race. I've encouraged people to be vaccinated. I have spoken about the need to have national quarantine facilities. I have spoken about the need to ensure that we have an effective public information campaign. You know what the Government said before the Senate Estimates committee of why they hadn't had a public information campaign? It was because they didn't have enough supply to meet demand and they didn't want to encourage demand. That was the evidence before the Senate Committee. The fact is that of the developed world, we are running last when it comes to the number of people fully vaccinated. And the Prime Minister said last year that we were at the front of the queue. Other countries did deals with multiple vaccines last year. We didn't. We should have done that. We should have had a range of vaccines here earlier in greater quantity. And then we wouldn't have the circumstances of the lockdowns that are a direct result of not having quarantine fixed and not having enough people vaccinated. But I'm not going to cop saying, 'I don't want people to be vaccinated' when each and every day I've been out there encouraging people to be vaccinated and saying that we needed to fix the quarantine facilities. And a desperate Government is looking to point the finger at someone else because they have botched this. 

WILSON: Okay, just before I let you go, categorically, are you backing in the AstraZeneca vaccine for anyone over the age of 18?

ALBANESE: After they consult their doctors. Exactly the same as the health advice. 

WILSON: So you're on board with the AstraZeneca vaccine? 

ALBANESE: Absolutely. According with the advice. 

WILSON: Okay. 

ALBANESE: But at the same time, one of the things is that advice has changed. And one of the things that I've said consistently is that politicians shouldn't be giving health advice. Doctors should and medical experts should.

WILSON: ATAGI are the experts. That's right.

ALBANESE: Exactly. I backed ATAGI, unlike the sort of nonsense that's going on here. Do you think that a Government campaign and spin like this encourages people to be vaccinated or doesn't?

WILSON: Let's just stop the politicising, Albo. Let's just get on with getting jabs in arms. 

ALBANESE: You're the one doing it. And Angus Taylor.

WILSON: I'm backing the science, mate. I'm backing in science.

ALBANESE: Science and ATAGI the whole way through. 

WILSON: Well, I'm backing in science. And I'm glad you're on board with AstraZeneca. We need that messaging out there for anyone over the age of 18. It's a perfectly effective and safe vaccine. Good on you for getting on board with AstraZeneca. Well done for getting on board with AstraZeneca. 

ALBANESE: Well, good try in terms of I have been onside with ATAGI the whole way through. Consistently I have said to listen to the doctors. Doesn't really matter, with due respect, you're not a doctor, we should be listening to the expert advice. 

WILSON: I get my advice every single day on this program from infectious diseases experts and from people like those who work at ATAGI. I don't deal with opinion. I deal in fact and science. You have not done that. You have not done that. 

ALBANESE: Again, you just raised an assertion that is not true. You cannot point to one thing I have said, one thing, that is not based upon the science. Not one thing. I've done press conferences every day. You talk about going missing, the Prime Minister went missing for six days. Previously, before that he went missing for four days. I haven't been missing. 

WILSON: Do you want to hear your new candidate in Higgins promote the AstraZeneca vaccine now that the advice has changed? You want to hear this?

ALBANESE: What are you talking about? 

WILSON: Well, the new candidate in Higgins.

ALBANESE: No. Here you go again. How about the Prime Minister? The Prime Minister of Australia has a bit more authority than any of us in politics. The Prime Minister held a press conference and said under-60s can't get AstraZeneca. He did that on the basis of advice. 

WILSON: Well, I'm glad you're backing in our scientists as I am. 

ALBANESE: I always have, Jim.

WILSON: Thanks for calling in.

ALBANESE: No worries, Jim.

WILSON: Have a nice weekend.

ENDS