SUBJECTS: Christian Porter legal fees & blind trust ; AUKUS alliance; nuclear-powered submarines; national security; Australia’s role in the Indo-Pacific. 

MARCUS PAUL, HOST: Good morning to you, Anthony.

ANTHONY ALBANESE, LEADER OF THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY: Good morning, Marcus. Good to be with you again

PAUL: Thank you, mate. I understand you're busy. And thank you for taking the call. Look, we know pubs are closed at the moment. But this does not pass the pub test, surely. Christian Porter has declared an unknown donor helped pay his legal fees through a blind trust. I mean, that's unbelievable. It borders on the absurd. It's precisely the sort of issue that undermines confidence in our political systems. Nobody, whether Labor, Liberal, nobody should be accepting donations from unknown sources.

ALBANESE: Well, this fellow is a living, breathing, walking example of why we need a National Anti-Corruption Commission. The idea that a Cabinet Minister can receive up to a million dollars from unknown sources, that he says he doesn't know about, Marcus, how did they find out the account to put the money in to pay into this trust? I mean, for goodness sake, this is just farcical. And what stuns me is that Scott Morrison once again has contracted out leadership. He's asked his department to report back. This doesn't need more than a millisecond to examine. I don't know about you Marcus, but I reckon there's a fair chance that no one's ever, or a group or a number of people, have never built up an account of up to a million dollars that you've personally benefited from without you knowing about it. 

PAUL: Well, that's right. It's absolutely absurd. And why we need Mr Gaetjens or whoever it is, why is that? Well, I know the answer, because we don't have an anti-corruption commission that's at a national level, we don't have a Federal ICAC, if you like, because, effectively, what the Prime Minister is going to do again is get his own department to look into one of his own. I mean, if that's not a conflict of interest, Anthony, I don't know what is.

ALBANESE: That is right. And the fellow happens to be his former Chief of Staff, just happens to be. This is just ridiculous. What we need here is a bit of leadership. Christian Porter should just go. He should be sacked. And he should be sacked if not today, yesterday. That's the only question. Why wasn't he gone as soon as this information became public? Because what he did, of course, was listed on his pecuniary interest register. At that point in time, he was acknowledging himself as a former Attorney-General, the first law officer of the land, that he had a personal interest in receiving these funds, obviously, to pay legal bills in what was a private matter.

PAUL: No matter how it's spun, it just does not pass any test at all, particularly when you're dealing with a gentleman who, is honourable, is a former Attorney-General of the country. Just moving on, and very briefly too, because I know you are pushed for time, Albo, the announcement yesterday, I know that you and others within Labor were briefed ahead of this AUKUS announcement. Just some comments on the announcement yesterday?

ALBANESE: Well, the first thing to say is that our partners in the United States and United Kingdom are important ones. And they have been for a long period of time. It was Labor under John Curtin that turned towards the United States during World War Two. And that's been a partnership that's endured now for more than seventy years. What we sought was assurances that a shift to nuclear-powered submarines could be done with three conditions. One, that it didn't mean attaining nuclear weapons. Secondly, that in terms of the arrangements going forward, that we would get assurances that wasn't in conflict with our nuclear non-proliferation treaty obligations. And that's important. And the third is that there'd be no requirement of a domestic civil nuclear industry. Now, because essentially the fuel cell, the power, can be provided and inserted into the sub and last for the life of the submarine, then all three conditions, we believe, can be met. And that was the advice that we sought and that we received confirmation of from our senior people, including the Chief of the Defence Force, who we were briefed by on Wednesday.

PAUL: The Prime Minister made it very clear in his announcement yesterday that we would not be breaching any of the nuclear proliferation agreements that we've signed and effectively that there will be no nuclear energy consumption here in Australia. Some of the usual candidates, whether it's the Nationals' Matt Canavan and others, Mark Latham in particular from One Nation this morning, brought it up as well on this program, they think it's a wasted opportunity. They say that if we're going to have nuclear capable submarines in the future, then why wouldn't we consider using, like France does, considering the energy is now so much cleaner and safer than it's been in the past, why would we not consider a move toward nuclear energy for our country?

ALBANESE: Very clearly, the cheapest form of new energy that can be provided for this country is renewables. It's as simple as that. The markets are certainly making that very, very clear. The other questions, though, to be raised from yesterday's announcement is how is it that we've wasted effectively close to $4 billion up to now on the French submarine program having previously abandoned a program that was begun in terms of negotiations with Japan? This is the third iteration under this Government. This Government have not delivered once again. They made big promises. They've now been in office for eight years and we're at the starting point, yet again, for an issue. And the cost also of the breaking of the contract with the French, we don't know what the cost will be. We don't know what the costs will for the future program.

PAUL: Well, it would be in the billions. 

ALBANESE: It will be in the multiple of billions of dollars. And we also don't know what the short- and medium-term implications are for jobs in the current decade, particularly in South Australia. These are all questions that the Government needs to answer. Because yet again, we see considerable waste. This whole program has turned out to be a cul de sac. And that is a real concern. And it's consistent with this Government's approach to public financing.

PAUL: Just finally, Albo, lots of posturing, lots of flags, nationalism, we've got our Defence Minister and others overseas at the moment flying the Australian flag, they're in Washington, they've been traversing the globe. National security, obviously, is of vital importance to our country, particularly in the Indo-Pacific and with what's happening in the South China Sea. We understand all of that. But I guess the big question, is this a distraction by the Federal Government ahead of the next election?

ALBANESE: I think this issue stands on its own. We must always be concerned about our national security. This Government has given another example of an area whereby they've promised big on the French submarines program and it hasn't led anywhere. And when you look back at this Government, it's been all about promise and never about delivery. All about waste and never about outcomes. And I think that's something that has characterised this Government. We do need to deal with the immediate crisis, of course, of dealing with COVID. And we know that the Government completely botched the rollout of the vaccine and purpose-built quarantine.

PAUL: All right, Anthony, good to have you on. Thank you very much. Stay safe. We'll catch up soon.

ALBANESE: Thanks, Marcus.

ENDS