SUBJECTS: Belt and Road Initiative; Australia’s relationship with China; foreign affairs; human rights; vaccine rollout; electric vehicles; road safety; Port of Darwin.
 
NEIL MITCHELL, HOST: Mr Albanese, good morning.
 
ANTHONY ALBANESE, LEADER OF THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY: Good morning, Neil. 
 
MITCHELL: Where are you?
 
ALBANESE: I just left Bendigo. I've been with Lisa Chesters, the Member for Bendigo, and her young baby. She gave birth two weeks ago to little Charlie. We were at Australian Turntables, which is a great manufacturer and exporter there, talking with them about our National Reconstruction Fund.
 
MITCHELL: Okay. Have you spoken to your mate, Daniel Andrews, yet?
 
ALBANESE: No, I haven't. We've been exchanging text messages and well wishes. He's done it tough and I wish him very well.
 
MITCHELL: I am with you, I wish him well, too. But he's put Australia in a very difficult position with this Belt and Road thing. Do you agree?
 
ALBANESE: Simon Birmingham, when the agreement was announced, went to Shanghai in November 2018 and said that we welcome the fact that Victoria has shown their enthusiasm and initiative and the Australian Government welcomes the fact that through the Belt and Road Initiative, China invests more across our region.
 
MITCHELL: So do you support the decision to tear it up?
 
ALBANESE: Yes, we do in terms of the right of the Federal Government to determine our foreign policy. We supported the legislation. But I do think that the Government has to explain why they've taken this action, but the Port of Darwin, which is a strategic port, which was sold to a company with direct links to the Chinese state, was sold while Scott Morrison was the Treasurer. And, of course, the Trade Minister at the time, Andrew Robb, went on to be on the board there and to play a role.
 
MITCHELL: There is a few on both sides with arrangements with Chinese business.
 
ALBANESE: And there's nothing wrong with having relations with businesses overseas. China has grown increasingly, under the current Government, to be an important trading partner. Something like 45 per cent of our exports, that is the destination. And I think, though, that the Government needs to explain more the reasons why it makes specific decisions. But we supported the legislation that says that the national Government is in charge of our foreign affairs.
 
MITCHELL: But would you have torn it up or not? Would you have gone ahead with it?
 
ALBANESE: We wouldn't have signed up as a national Government to it.
 
MITCHELL: You would have said to Daniel Andrews, 'No, don't do this, bad idea'?
 
ALBANESE: We wouldn't have signed up as a national Government. When Daniel Andrews signed the agreement, the Australian Government welcomed it.
 
MITCHELL: And you would have tried to stop him doing that, would you?
 
ALBANESE: Well, I don't know. I can't go back in the TARDIS.
 
MITCHELL: He's one of your mates, though.
 
ALBANESE: We would have had a discussion at the time if I was the national leader of the country, I would have had a discussion with any state government at the time.
 
MITCHELL: I think Bill Shorten, by the way, who I spoke to for the first time in four years on television, I think he originally supported it when he was leader.
 
ALBANESE: I don't know, Neil.
 
MITCHELL: Doesn't matter. That's history. Do you agree that the Chinese regime is abhorrent?
 
ALBANESE: I agree that the Chinese regime is not a democratic regime. They have a very different political system. And that we should be prepared to speak out on human rights issues, and we should do that consistently. But I also say we should be prepared to have a relationship, an economic relationship, with China, just as we do with a range of other regimes that have different political systems, whether it be Saudi Arabia, or others.
 
MITCHELL: Should we have this relationship with a country that runs concentration camps?
 
ALBANESE: We should be prepared to engage in our region. One of the things that I agree with is the Biden administration's philosophical position they have put forward, given the changing nature in recent times of the Chinese regime of competition without catastrophe. That's what we need to do. We need to manage the relationships in our own region in our own national interests, consistent with our own values.
 
MITCHELL: Let's not dodge around it. Do you believe the Chinese Government is running concentration camps for the Uyghurs?
 
ALBANESE: The Chinese Government are engaging in some human rights issues that aren't acceptable in accordance with our ways. 
 
MITCHELL: Can't we at least say human rights abuses?
 
ALBANESE: Of course, we can say human rights abuses. Just as the actions in places like Hong Kong are inappropriate as well, the undermining of one country, two systems, which was the basis upon Hong Kong joining China, essentially, when the UK left.
 
MITCHELL: Should Australia boycott the Beijing Winter Olympics next year?
 
ALBANESE: I have never been a great fan of boycotting events. I think that we need to engage in our region. And we need, in international affairs, to be prepared to have that engagement. I think that if we break up into a bloc of the world, the US-led bloc, if you like, and a China-led bloc, I'm not sure how productive that is. And I'm not sure that it is in Australia's interest and in the interests of, particularly, Australian jobs. There are a whole lot of jobs out there, including in regional communities right around the country, that depend upon our exports to China. And if you're saying we should have nothing to do with the People's Republic of China because we have differences with them, no, that is not a sentiment I agree with, and one that is, I don't believe, in the interest of Australian jobs or in the long-term in the interest of good international relations.
 
MITCHELL: The US have also accused China of committing genocide. Do you agree there? Is China committing genocide?
 
ALBANESE: I'm not going to get into word games, Neil.
 
MITCHELL: It's a pretty important word in a discussion about human rights.
 
ALBANESE: Well, it's not one that I have used. And I'll use my own words.
 
MITCHELL: How do you describe it? How do you describe what's happening to the Uyghurs in China?
 
ALBANESE: Well, there are human rights abuses that are occurring in China and in many other parts of the world, Neil.
 
MITCHELL: Which other parts of the world are on the same level as China?
 
ALBANESE: I think there's a range of atrocities occurring in places like Yemen at the moment. I think if you look at what is occurring there, Neil, what's occurring in Syria, what's occurring to many populations, including the Kurds, what's occurring in Burma, or Myanmar, where you've had a democratic election that has been essentially usurped by a military takeover with ongoing abuses against the Rohingya. I think when we look around the world, there are a range of regimes that make you think that you're very lucky to live in a democratic country like Australia.
 
MITCHELL: One point, Australia is failing at a state and federal level is the vaccine rollout. What are you getting from the aged care facilities? Because we're hearing there's a massive number of people in aged care facilities that are still not vaccinated.
 
ALBANESE: It's just a shocker. I visited the Sacred Heart facility at St Kilda yesterday where not a single person has received the vaccine. These are vulnerable aged care residents. And not a single worker there has received the vaccine either. You have stories of aged care residents being told that they're going to get a vaccine and then it just doesn't show up. You have relatives going to be with their mum or dad or grandparents, to be there when they receive their vaccine, and it just doesn't happen. And the idea that the workforce who work with our elderly are not going to be given the vaccine at a time when they should, it is of real concern. Eight weeks ago, the Government, Scott Morrison, said that aged care residents in category 1A would receive the vaccine in the next six weeks. Well, that is two weeks ago, and they are nowhere near receiving that.
 
MITCHELL: We did back the wrong horse with AstraZeneca, did we not?
 
ALBANESE: We sure did, and we didn't back enough horses.
 
MITCHELL: But did we really have an option?
 
ALBANESE: Of course, we did. We could have negotiated over vaccines like Moderna so that when in the UK they stopped AstraZeneca going to particular cohorts, younger people, then Moderna was able to step in. Neil, we're struggling to get in the top 100 nations of the world when it comes to rollout. We were told we were at the front of the queue and we're almost right at the back.
 
MITCHELL: Electric vehicles, just quickly, the state government here is going to introduce electric vehicle taxed. You are opposing that, aren't you? You have got a few fights with your mates here. You're opposing the idea of an electric vehicle tax on a state level.
 
ALBANESE: Well, what I'm saying is that the Federal Government needs to deal with the issue of road user charges in a consistent way. The danger that we are in here is that it is a bit like rail, we could end up with eight different systems around Australia. This is something that the Federal Government initiated an inquiry over road usage charges and what will occur with people not paying their taxes through petrol. And they abandoned it. It's a lack of Commonwealth leadership that has led the Victorian Government to this position.
 
MITCHELL: Are you aware of the road safety issues with the electric vehicles?
 
ALBANESE: Which ones in particular, Neil? I'm aware that with any vehicle there are road safety issues, as someone who was in a head-on accident in January. I almost wasn't in a position to talk to you ever again, Neil. I'm very conscious about road safety, as you know.
 
MITCHELL: This is one of the reasons I asked. Because electric vehicles are significantly heavier than petrol or diesel driven vehicles, we've established this week. Which means they hit with extremely heavier force. If they are 40 per cent heavier, which some of them are, many of them are, then at 60km an hour, they're hitting at 40 per cent harder. This seems to be a road safety issue which has not been dealt with.
 
ALBANESE: Well, weight does matter.
 
MITCHELL: Were you aware that they were that much heavier?
 
ALBANESE: I'm aware that they are heavier due to the nature of the technology that goes into the vehicle. But I doubt whether a Nissan LEAF, which I have had the opportunity to drive, is heavier than a Range Rover.
 
MITCHELL: It is heavier than a comparable-sized vehicle.
 
ALBANESE: I was in a hybrid vehicle myself. I drive a hybrid Camry. One of the things that helped save my life was the fact that it had up-to-date safety features in it.
 
MITCHELL: On the Port of Darwin, did you say it had been sold to China? 
 
ALBANESE: Well, leased for 99 years.
 
MITCHELL: A caller said that it wasn't sold, it was leased for 99 years.
 
ALBANESE: Well, are you and I going to be talking about it in 99 years, Neil, unless there are some big changes?
 
MITCHELL: I hope so. Thank you so much for your time.
 
ALBANESE: I don’t Neil, on either count I think.
 
MITCHELL: Thanks so much. Leader of the Opposition Anthony Albanese there. 
 
ENDS