TOPICS: Morrison-Joyce Government shambles on Net Zero Emissions; growing new industries; supporting Australian manufacturing; nuclear power; market determining cheapest form of new energy.

MICHAEL J BAILEY, HOST: They are in disarray when it comes to net zero. I just can't work out what is going on. Good morning to you, Anthony Albanese. How are you?

ANTHONY ALBANESE, LEADER OF THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY: Good morning, Michael. I'm very well. I wish I was in Rocky. Twenty degrees. Bit colder in Canberra, mate.

BAILEY: Okay, well, what's temperature you got now?

ALBANESE: I don't know but it's never 20 degrees at this time in Canberra, I'll assure you of that.

BAILEY: Well, hopefully if everything works out, you may be able to visit us, if only we can get our vaxes up. It looks like we've been very naughty in Central Queensland. And we could be under scrutiny from Annastacia, we may be in lockdown, who knows? People can't visit us unless we hit that certain percentage mark. Now talking about marks, I'm fascinated with the National Party net zero. Everybody wants it. All the polls are saying yes, yes, yes. But they're sticking to their guns because they're hearing different stories from people in the country. How do you think they're going?

ALBANESE: Well, this is just stubbornness. And it's a bit like someone running around trying to sell a Beta video to people in 2021. The world has moved on. Every state and territory government, the Business Council, the National Farmers’ Federation, Meat and Livestock, every business, all four of the big banks, the four accounting companies, Telstra, Qantas, everyone is supporting net zero by 2050. And you have the Federal Government incapable of action. We know that there'll be penalties against Australia - Josh Frydenberg has gone out there and given speeches about that, so has the Reserve Bank Governor - that will actually suffer our economy. And we know that a shift to net zero by 2050 will actually create jobs and particularly in regional Australia. So the National Party pantomime where, eventually, Scott Morrison will announce, he'll go to Glasgow, he'll say Australia supports net zero by 2050. But he'll pretend that that’s sort of a big victory without a real path to get there. And you have the absurdity of people who are National Party ministers and front benchers, including Cabinet ministers, no less than the Deputy Prime Minister, not supporting the Government's policy. I mean, this isn't a Government. It's a shambles.

BAILEY: So, what's going to happen to the coal mines? I mean, the Greens are saying they've got to go. I mean, if the coal mines shut down in Central Queensland and beyond, we're going to be in big trouble. There's 70 huge industries, you know, geared up to look after the mines, not only here, but also Mackay and Gladstone, though, you know, what do you say to those people?

ALBANESE: Of course, well, those decisions will be determined in boardrooms overseas. They won't be determined by the Greens. They'll be determined by markets. And what's happened in Australia, there's nothing now to stop the building of any sort of power station, coal, gas, renewables with battery storage, hydro. All that is determining that is the market. And the market is meaning that under this Government, in spite of all the rhetoric of the Nats, where is the power station, coal fired power station that's under construction? Nowhere. Nowhere. That is not happening. And that's not because of the Morrison Government's policy, or state government policy, that's just a reality of the market. But markets internationally will continue to have demand for metallurgical coal, in terms of steelmaking and also thermal coal, they're expected to be affected by the change that's happening globally. Because most of that market, of course, is for export. What we need to do is to make sure that we respect workers who are working in those industries, make sure that into the future, we're talking about not just supporting existing industries, but how do we grow new industries? When I was at Gladstone, just south of you, when I first became Leader, I went to the Rio Tinto aluminium refinery there. This was in 2019. They were talking about how they convert to solar, how they get their energy costs down, and therefore become more competitive. And that's a phenomenon that's happening everywhere in order to support jobs. And those jobs will be particularly available in regional Australia. You saw the announcement last week by Annastacia Palaszczuk and Twiggy Forrest around green hydrogen in Gladstone. That's a major job generator. And we can be a renewable energy superpower for the world. We can take advantage of the resources that we have in minerals that are going through the roof in value, copper, lithium, nickel, others. Many of which, of course, are available right there in Queensland. We can manufacture more things in Queensland as well. I've visited the Downer EDI factory in Maryborough. Why is it that the Liberal and National parties don't support Australian made? When Campbell Newman was in power, he sent all the train manufacture offshore, they came back and they're not even fit for purpose. They got to be fixed up by Australian workers there in Maryborough. Now that's a phenomenon that's reflected around the country. Why is it that Australia doesn't have a Buy Australian Plan for Government procurement? That's a plan that I announced last week, a 10 point plan to make sure that the almost $200 billion that Australian Governments across the board will purchase in goods and services that they've purchased over the last three years. That equivalent over the next three is maximising Australian employment, Australian economic activity. We need to be more resilient, we need to learn the lessons. The truth is that the National Party pretend they stand up for the Australian interest. They actually stand up for foreign shareholders. They don't stand up for Australian jobs, they sit back and watch those jobs go overseas.

BAILEY: Oh, I think it's a bit harsh. I think that's a bit harsh.

ALBANESE: Every Coalition Government, New South Wales, Queensland, Victoria, WA, in the last decades, have sent rail manufacturing and tram manufacturing overseas, every one of them. And every one of those processes has been a debacle. Every single one of them.

BAILEY: Well, there's been a lot of good stuff being done. What about nuclear power? Here's my last question. Here we go. We're looking about, you know, getting green and saving the environment. Nuclear power has to be the way to go. Are you going to change your mind about lifting the ban?

ALBANESE: Not at all, because it doesn't stack up? And that's why...

BAILEY: But how come it stacks up in France, how come it stacks up in all countries around the world?

ALBANESE: That's not true. Where is it being expanded? Germany are withdrawing from nuclear because renewables are cheaper, safer, don't have any of the risks associated with it. And when a local MP puts their hand up and says I want a nuclear power plant in Rockhampton, then they'll be taken seriously. It will take a long, long time. The lead time isn't in the months or years, it's in decades. And technology has moved on. When you look at the prospect that's there for green hydrogen.

BAILEY: Anthony, what about the carbon trading scheme?

ALBANESE: What about it?

BAILEY: Well, is it going to be, you know, part of the system?

ALBANESE: Depends what you're talking about. Are you talking about agricultural soil carbon? Are you talking about...

BAILEY: Yeah, look, I've got David French. He's an investment collective owner. And he was just querying me about that off air. David, good morning to you, how are you?

DAVID FRENCH: I'm very well, thanks. Yeah, the Gillard Government intended to put in a carbon trading scheme and the Labor Party's mates, the Greens, voted it down. The carbon trading scheme is a perfect thing to send the right price signal right across the markets. And Anthony's 100 per cent correct. I mean, things are happening out there despite what governments of any persuasion say. But the thing that's missing in this whole debate is something that welds these discussions and people's thought process together and that's a price on pollution or carbon.

BAILEY: So, do you think that's a reality? Do you think that'll be bought back in and you know, we sit down and put it in the melting pot and you know, see what happens?

ALBANESE: No, well, the reason why you needed something in terms of an emissions trading scheme that was supported by not just Labor but was supported by the Howard Government after Peter Shergold did a review in 2007 was that you needed to essentially intervene into the market to change price, to send that price signal. You don't need that now to drive cleaner outcomes. If you just get out of the way, the market is determining that. The market is determining that the cheapest form of new energy is renewables, and therefore you don't need a price signal.

BAILEY: Anthony Albanese. Thanks very much for having a chat with us this morning. We'll watch this space with great interest and thanks very much for coming on, of course, at 99.4RO. Have a good day in Parliament, mate.

ALBANESE: Thanks very much Michael and I look forward to getting up to Rocky when I can.

ENDS