SUBJECTS: COVID diagnosis; Peter Dutton’s comments on preparing for war; China-Solomons security pact; Australia’s engagement in the Pacific; Labor’s Pacific engagement policy announcement; Richard Marles’ speech in Beijing. 
 
GARETH PARKER, HOST: My next guest on 6PR Breakfast was supposed to be here in Perth in recent days, but then COVID-19 had other plans. He is the man who wants to be Prime Minister. He is still in isolation at his home in Sydney. Anthony Albanese, good morning.
 
ANTHONY ALBANESE, LEADER OF THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY: Good morning, Gareth. Yes, it was a routine test in order to come to WA. Before I've gone interstate I've had a test, and this one, surprisingly for me, tested positive. It was the day after the debate and I'd had a very busy day and was feeling okay, but the PCR registered positive and, since then, I have had some symptoms, but I'm going much better than a lot of people have had it. I note as well that Mark McGowan tested positive at the same time. We had a chat a couple of nights ago about that. But, hopefully, both of us will be right for the campaign launch next Sunday in Perth.
 
PARKER: How are you feeling today? You don't sound quite 100 per cent, maybe it's just my ears.
 
ALBANESE: Well, when you have COVID you're not 100 per cent, that's the truth of the matter. But compared with the stories from some of the colleagues that have really had it tough, I'm doing okay. So I just have to take the health advice, which is seven days iso but also to get as much rest as possible during this period. It does make you tired, but I haven't had any of the headaches and other symptoms that others have spoken to me about. So I consider myself to be quite fortunate. We've had, since the Budget, we've had almost half of our Shadow Cabinet have come down with COVID. Kristina Keneally, Chris Bowen, Tony Burke, Jason Clare, and Jenny McAllister. Michelle Rowland is down at the moment. The same thing, I'm sure, is happening on the other side. It's part of, unfortunately, a part of what we're dealing with this pandemic in 2022.
 
PARKER: Well, we appreciate you interrupting the rest to speak to us this morning. You've got a new policy announcement today about the Pacific Islands, which I do want to get to in a moment, but can I just get your reaction to some comments from the Defence Minister, Peter Dutton, yesterday, on ANZAC Day. 
 
PETER DUTTON, DEFENCE MINISTER (AUDIO CLIP): "The only way that you can you can preserve peace is to prepare for war and to be strong as a country, not to cower, not to be on bended knee, and be, you know, weak that's the reality."
 
PARKER: Anthony Albanese, is Peter Dutton right?
 
ALBANESE: Well, I think Malcolm Turnbull put it pretty well this morning when he said that his rhetoric is becoming more and more bombastic and belligerent, it's a pity that he doesn't match it with actual preparation and work. The truth is that what's happened in the Solomons is an absolute failure of foreign policy, that's been recognised by Julie Bishop, by Malcolm Turnbull, and by other commentators and experts in in the foreign and defence policy areas.
 
PARKER: Those two, of course, aren't big fans of Peter Dutton even before this situation.
 
ALBANESE: Well the truth is that if you look at Greg Sheridan's piece in The Australian, for example yesterday, it was a devastating critique of the gap that's there between the government's rhetoric and actually delivering on an increase in our defence capability, and the most stark example of that, of course, is the $5.5 billion on submarines that hasn't produced anything except a torn up contract.
 
PARKER: This Pacific Islands policy, which you and your colleagues are launching today, there's an Australia Pacific Defence School to upgrade the capabilities of our Pacific neighbours, there's extra funding for the Pacific Islands nations to patrol their economic fishing zones, that's important because it costs them potentially hundreds of millions of dollars a year through illegal fishing. More money for the ABC to broadcast Australian programs into the Pacific and South Asia. You say you want Australia to be a partner of choice for Pacific Island nations, but doesn't it take two to tango? If China are out there, wooing the Solomon Islands PM, and maybe more than wooing, well, how do you prevent that?
 
ALBANESE: Well, we need a plan to build a stronger Pacific family, and the truth is that Australia has been the security partner of choice since the Second World War in the Pacific, and the government has dropped the ball here. That's essentially what's happened. The Prime Minister hasn't even, still, picked up the phone to the Prime Minister of the Solomons, Prime Minister Sogavare, and I find that just remarkable. I find it incredible that the Foreign Minister or the Defence Minister weren't dispatched to the Solomons, even though our intelligence told us that this was on the cards, according to the government itself, for a long period of time. So we want to strengthen those partnerships with a comprehensive package of new programs that includes aid, it includes the maritime security program, it includes broadcasting and engaging, and that's a good example. When the government cut those programs because of cuts to the ABC a few years ago, China stepped straight into the void. We need to avoid that. We have the Australian Pacific Defence School is a really practical example of building deeper institutional links between our ADF and our regional counterparts. Engagement on climate change is really important as well, we want to establish a Pacific climate infrastructure financing partnership. Even on a simple level of bi-partisan Parliamentary Pacific visits. Now that occurred under the previous government, under Malcolm Turnbull's Government, it was cut. That people-to-people relations is very important as well.
 
PARKER: I'm sure you would concede that China have been working on something like this for some years, and, you know, there are reports that there have been incentives for the PM, in particular, of the Solomon Islands. Perhaps worse than incentives, perhaps bribes. Do you find those reports credible?
 
ALBANESE: Look, I'm not in a position to comment on those reports. What we know though, as a fact, is that China has changed its position in the region. It's more forward leaning, it's seeking to increase its influence, and that requires a response from Australia. We had a significant cut in our foreign aid to the Pacific when the Abbott government was elected, and we haven't recovered from that. So we need to make sure that we engage across a whole range of ways. We're in a positive position in terms of some advantages that we have. Our historic relationships. We have similar values. The Pacific diaspora here is substantial, which is really important, as well. Part of what we will do is to help Australia as well, in terms of our worker shortages, by reforming the labour mobility program that's there for seasonal workers from the Pacific to make sure that it works more effectively as well. We need a comprehensive plan of engagement with the Pacific, and we simply haven't had it. We've dropped the ball, and, as a result, Australia is less secure.
 
PARKER: You made a comment then, which I've heard you make before I think you might have even made it in the debate, that is that China has changed. That it's changed its posture, and that requires us to change in our response. When do you think China changed? What year?
 
ALBANESE: Well it's over a period of time since Xi came to power. What we've seen is –
 
PARKER: So it's not a new thing? You're not saying it's happened in the last 12 months?
 
ALBANESE: No, it hasn't happened in the last 12 months. 
 
PARKER: So just on that, your Deputy Leader, Richard Marles, in 2019, when he was saying that we should enter into defence partnerships with China, that Australia didn't have an exclusive right to engage in the Pacific, what was he talking about?
 
ALBANESE: Well, they were similar comments in terms of recognising that China had changed. We're not exclusive partners. There's strategic competition in the region, and we need to recognise that – 
 
PARKER: He said Australia shouldn't engage in the strategic denial of others.
 
ALBANESE: Sorry, I missed that.
 
PARKER: He said, Richard Marles, that Australia shouldn't engage in the strategic denial of others.
 
ALBANESE: No, Richard was talking about the changed posture of China in the region, the need to respond, and similarly at the time, and over a long period of time, Scott Morrison and others have made comments that are very similar in terms of China's engagement in the region. You had welcoming by members of the government, for example, about the BRI, the Belt and Road Initiative from China. What we need to do is to make sure that we engage with things as they are right now in 2022, and as they are right now, we have a circumstance whereby the Chinese Government have been able to have this security arrangement with the Solomons right under our nose, and the Solomons, of course, is closer to where I am speaking to you from now, then you are there in Perth, that shows how important it is. 
 
PARKER: Yeah. We understand that, for sure. Would you, as either Opposition Leader or Prime Minister, ever run a speech by the Chinese Embassy before delivering it, as Richard Marles did?
 
ALBANESE: Well, he didn't run it by anybody. He's made that very clear. This is a complete distraction from the real issues which are there. What Richard Marles did, and it's something that members of the government haven't done, was go to China and criticise China on human rights. On Uyghurs, on Hong Kong, on its human rights record, and the distribution of a speech, which not one word was changed in advance, is something that happens regularly, in terms of speeches that are given are often distributed in advance, and because he was, he's explained this, because he was critical of China, in China, something that Richard Marles did, something that Kevin Rudd went and did, and something that I'm not aware of examples of Australian Government ministers going to China and doing.
 
PARKER: Anthony Albanese, we look forward to your recovery, hopefully you're in good shape ASAP, back on the campaign trail. We look forward to welcoming you to Perth for the Labor campaign launch next weekend. 
 
ALBANESE: Thanks very much, Gareth.

ENDS