SUBJECTS: Emissions reduction targets; energy policy; standing up for workers; same job, same pay; religious discrimination laws; Omicron variant; housing affordability; stagnant wages; Uluru Statement from the Heart; Parliament sitting calendar; election date; 7.30 interviews during the election campaign.

LEIGH SALES, HOST: With me from Canberra is the Opposition Leader, Anthony Albanese. Thanks very much for being with us.
 
ANTHONY ALBANESE, LEADER OF THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY: Good evening, Leigh.

SALES: A 2030 emissions reduction target. When will you announce yours? And will it be more than 35 per cent?

ALBANESE: We'll announce it in good time. It'll certainly be announced before the end of this year. The Government, of course, waited a long period of time before they produce their pamphlet and, in the end, it's just a vibe really. There's no real plan to get to net zero by 2050. We've already got a lot of policy out there. We've got our policy to transform the electricity transmission system, our Rewiring the Nation plan, we have our net zero by 2050, we have our community batteries plan, our New Energy Apprenticeships plan and our National Reconstruction Fund, which will help industries to transform to take advantage of the opportunities which are there.

SALES: Will that get you over 35 per cent reduction?

ALBANESE: We'll announce all of our policies. One of the things that we're not doing, Leigh, is deciding on a figure and then working back. What we're doing is the opposite. What we're doing is working out what good policy is going forward, how we take the opportunity that is there to create jobs, lower energy prices whilst lowering our emissions. And we've announced a range of policies. We'll have more to come before the end of the year.

SALES: The former treasurer, Wayne Swan, noted that in recent times you've seen many of Labor's old working class and lower income voters won over by the populist right. And we saw just now how that's playing out potentially in Queensland. How can you counter that trend but also meet the expectation of your progressive inner-city Sydney and Melbourne voters, who you could otherwise lose to the Greens?

ALBANESE: Well, Labor will always stand up for the rights of working people. I've got a bill in the Parliament now for same job, same pay. One of the things that's happening in the mining sector, but in other sectors as well, is that labour hire companies are paying up to $40,000 less than people who are permanent employees for the same job. We'll have secure work at the centre of our agenda. Secure work, dealing with issues like casualisation, dealing with people who are in the gig economy, helping to close the gender pay gap, 10 days paid domestic and family violence leave, making sure that permanent work is an objective of the Fair Work Act. We’ll have much fairer, more secure work at the centre of our offer at the next election.

SALES: Your shadow climate change minister, Chris Bowen, noted after the 2019 election that people of faith in areas like his seat no longer feel ‘that progressive politics cares about them’. Where does that leave Labor in terms of the religious freedom bill?

ALBANESE: We'll examine the details after the committee that will look at it. My view, Leigh, and Labor's view, is that people of faith should be respected. They should be able to practice their faith and they should have those rights without rights being taken away from other people.

SALES: Let's whip around a few other issues that are likely to be prominent in the election campaign. On COVID, what's known so far about the latest variant is that it's not really making people particularly sick. At least two of the four cases in Sydney have no symptoms whatsoever. The national vaccination rate in Australia is about 90 per cent. Isn't there a risk here of unnecessary panic and overreaction if states start closing borders and so on again?

ALBANESE: Well, we need to have a measured response but we also need to apply the precautionary principle here, Leigh. We've seen in the past, for example, in Sydney when Scott Morrison encouraged Gladys Berejiklian to not close down activity. We saw that spread, from a single driver taking someone to hotel quarantine in Sydney, spread throughout the entire country and lockdowns, at great cost, having to be imposed as a result of that policy failure. What we need to do is to have a sober and measured response. But this has once again shown that we should have had in place purpose-built quarantine by now. The idea that we would return to hotel quarantine when it's been responsible for more than 20 breaches that have had real consequences for the economy just shows a failure to have that foresight.

SALES: On housing affordability, people always talk about Sydney and Melbourne, but you look at Tasmania, you look at Brisbane, you look at regional New South Wales, for years you've seen housing prices going up four per cent, eight per cent, some markets 20 per cent. Wages, though, over decades have barely moved out of that kind of one-two per cent range. What is the answer to that situation?

ALBANESE: Well, real wages of course have fallen under this Government and they've been projected to fall over the coming four years. We need to address people's standard of living. Part of that, of course, is housing. One of the things that we will do is increase housing stock by investing in social housing. And we think that will have a major impact on the market. But we need to address housing affordability by doing two things. One is that increased social housing investment. But secondly, as well, we do need to address living standards, which is where our policy of secure work and lifting wages will have an impact.

SALES: But how do you lift wages?

ALBANESE: Well, you lift wages by making sure that you don't have an undermining of existing wages and conditions by, for example, cowboy labour high firms undercutting people. You lift wages by not having a two phase economy, some people who are working in the traditional economy, other people working in the gig economy being not treated as employees, being treated as contractors, when for all intents and purposes it is an employer-employee relationship. You lift wages by addressing the issue of casualisation. You lift wages for women by making sure that they can participate in the workforce by giving proper support to the child care system by making child care cheaper.

SALES: In the event of a US-China conflict over Taiwan, isn't the Defence Minister, Peter Dutton, right that Australia will automatically follow whatever the US does, based on the evidence of history going back 40 years, including under Labor governments?

ALBANESE: Well, you look at the position of the Biden administration, it's very different from the rhetorical position that Peter Dutton has put forward. We maintain the same position as the United States. And we think that is sensible. That is support for the status quo.

SALES: But that's exactly my point, that whatever the US does, Australia does in lockstep.

ALBANESE: No, what the US does is support for the status quo at the moment. And they've consistently done that. That's been the situation which the leadership of Taiwan have also endorsed. And that is the position that we think is appropriate.

SALES: In the election campaign, the Morrison Government's case will probably go something like, ‘We've steered Australia through the pandemic better than almost any other country in the world, comparatively very few deaths and the economy is recovering well, so don't risk change’. How will you counter that message?

ALBANESE: We'll counter it by saying this Government's incapable of imagining a better future, let alone creating one. And we’ll create one by having new industries, by taking advantage of cheaper, cleaner energy, which is there through our National Reconstruction Fund. We’ll make work more secure. We'll defend living standards by making child care cheaper, by defending and extending Medicare as the centrepiece of our health system. We will look forward, as well, as a nation. We’re diminished while we don't recognise First Nations people in our Constitution and we're committed to the Uluru Statement from the Heart. But we're also committed to reforming the way that politics works in this country. To do so you need a national anti-corruption commission. It's very clear that this Government will never have one.

SALES: The Parliament's put out next year's sitting calendar and the Federal Budget is slated for March 29, which is earlier than you normally expected Budget, which is in May. What does that tell you about the timing of when the election will be?

ALBANESE: Well, it tells you that they'll either go after Australia Day, and not have Parliament sit at all for March 5 or March 12, or they'll have a Budget and then go on the following weekend. What it really tells us is that it's a reminder, or a graphic demonstration, of a government that doesn't have an agenda. They're only sitting for a few days before the Budget, hardly sitting at all next year. It's likely, even if there's a Budget, that we will sit a grand total of 10 days the House of Reps and five days the Senate in the first six months of next year. This is a Government that don't have an agenda for today, let alone one for tomorrow. And that's why they're out of time and don't deserve a second decade in office. We have an opportunity to grow back stronger after the pandemic. Australians have been magnificent and have made sacrifices and they deserve a government that looks to the future and creates a better future for working Australians and helps to grow the middle class and addresses issues like the environmental challenge of climate change, that understands it's an opportunity to really grow Australia and for us to be a renewable energy superpower into the future.

SALES: Before you go, in the 11 years that I've anchored this program, every political leader has agreed to do two primetime interviews on 7.30 during the federal election campaign. Are you willing to stick with that tradition in 2022?

ALBANESE: Certainly, Leigh. At least two.

SALES: I will make the same invitation to the Prime Minister. Thank you very much.

ALBANESE: Thanks, Leigh.

ENDS