SUBJECTS: The Future of our Cities speech; Historical rape allegation made against a Cabinet minister; workplace culture in Parliament House. 

DAVID BEVAN, HOST: Labor Leader, Anthony Albanese, joins us now. Good morning, Mr Albanese. 

ANTHONY ALBANESE, LEADER OF THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY: Good morning, David. 

BEVAN: You're delivering a speech in about less than an hour in Sydney asking us to reimagine our cities. Why do we need to do that? 

ALBANESE: Well, we need to recognise that cities are the first ever network and they are a powerful tool in powering our economy. More than eight out of 10 Australians live in our cities and more than 80 per cent of our GDP comes from our cities. We need to make sure that in the post-COVID recovery, it gives us an opportunity to take a bit of a step back, look at what's going right and what's going wrong and how we can make our cities more productive, more sustainable and more liveable. 

BEVAN: But which bits of the pandemic, the effects of a pandemic, do you think are here to stay? 

ALBANESE: Well, I think it's changed work patterns forever. One of the things that we've seen is many more people being able to work from home. And in some cases, that might mean three days in the office and a couple of days at home. And I know that big businesses are currently having rosters. So people are putting in their bids of what three days they want to work and they will have a rotation around the office. Now, that has implications for our CBDs in particular. And we've all seen our CBDs have less people in them during the pandemic, at some stages a lot less. But I think that will have a permanent feature, now, that has implications for the sort of structure of our middle and outer suburbs as well. What services and amenities are available there if more people are there during the day and working from home? And that means that policy responses need to keep up with the demands that the population will be making as we come out of the pandemic. 

BEVAN: Another example that you point to is that while the vacancy rate in offices is quite high, there's very strong demand for warehousing. But has anybody got a handle on this? Does anybody clearly know what's going to happen and how we can shape policy to take advantage of this? 

ALBANESE: Well, of course, one of the things we've seen as well is people change their shopping patterns. So we are seeing big growth in warehouses. What that means is that location is important. The roads to and from the warehouses, how goods actually get from there to the front door, has implications for the way that our transport systems function. And what government needs to do is to have proper analysis of this. We're proposing to re-establish a Cities and Suburbs unit within the organisation, Infrastructure Australia, so that we can have that arms' length ability to advise government and indeed the general public. We will also re-establish an Urban Policy Forum. We want to get the Property Council, the architects, the different people who are planners, with different levels of government together as well. And as well, we're saying this morning that local government needs to have a seat at the table of the National Cabinet. This will be critical going forward. The truth is much of our planning does occur at that local level. And by excluding local government from what used to be the COAG process, we think that's a real weakness. 

BEVAN: Anthony Albanese, on another topic, why are you calling for an inquiry into an allegation against Christian Porter which cannot be proven? 

ALBANESE: Look, if this occurred in the workplace of a major company, you would have an inquiry because it hasn't been tested. If it occurred in the High Court of Australia, as we saw, there was an inquiry. There's nothing unusual about when serious allegations are made against someone who is in a position of authority, and we're talking here about the first law officer of the land, that we can't just move on, as the Prime Minister has said. The fact that you're asking me this question is evidence of the fact that Australia hasn't just moved on. There are questions which are outstanding. And therefore, an examination at arm's length from government, an independent examination by, say, a retired judge, would be, I think, a common-sense way to go forward. 

BEVAN: The basis of the inquiry, though, is an allegation of rape. How could the inquirer get over the problem of being unable to establish whether or not it happened? 

ALBANESE: Well, one of the things that any inquiry should do, of course, is to begin with a presumption of innocence. But what this would enable is an examination of the arguments that have been put forward. I was somewhat stunned that both the Prime Minister and Christian Porter said that they hadn't read the documentation which was forwarded to a range of people including the Prime Minister, that included the outline, a lengthy outline, my understanding is, of the claims by the woman at the centre of this allegation who, tragically, of course, we know now took her own life. 

BEVAN: But why is it incumbent on Christian Porter and the Prime Minister to read the allegation in detail and all the surrounding documentation? Surely, that's for the police. And they've done that. And they've said that there's nothing that they can do about this. Even if the woman was still alive, they still would not have pursued with it. 

ALBANESE: David, would you have read it if you were in that position before you then responded in a press conference? I think most Australians would have a look at that and say, 'Before I respond, I need to know what I'm responding to'. And that's the point here. 

BEVAN: Well, he knows what he's responding to. He's responding to an allegation that he raped this woman. And he says he never did. And for him, that's where it begins and ends. 

ALBANESE: That's the headline. Even in Christian Porter's own recollections, there was a range of comments that he made that were certainly not conclusive about the details of the matter. He certainly has rejected the central allegation. And that, of course, is his right to do so. But I do find it somewhat astonishing, frankly, that neither Scott Morrison, who was forwarded the document, or Christian Porter has read the document before responding. All that happened here was that Scott Morrison said he spoke to Christian Porter and he believed his words, that he said back to him that he was innocent. But he didn't bother to read the words that the woman wanted to be read, which is why she spoke to a number of friends before taking her own life and spoke indeed to the police in Sydney. 

BEVAN: What would the terms of reference be? 

ALBANESE: It's not my job to write the terms of reference. 

BEVAN: But if you want an inquiry, you must have some idea. And you would like to be the Prime Minister. If you win the next election, you can't ring up Scott Morrison and say, 'Hey, Mate, what do you think I should do in a tricky situation?' You want the job. So what would the terms of reference for the inquiry be? 

ALBANESE: I'm not Scott Morrison. Scott Morrison needs to have some conclusion here. I mean, what Scott Morrison essentially is saying is that Australian should unsee and unhear what they know, and we should just move on as business as usual with Christian Porter just returning as the Attorney-General and the first law of the land. We know that that's not the case. The fact that every day, every press conference I give, every interview I give, I get asked about it, it's just a reminder that this remains an issue. And I don't quite understand why Scott Morrison doesn't see that it does remain an issue. But it's something that is characteristic of this Government. Walking away from accountability and responsibility. In Scott Morrison's own words, he doesn't hold the hose. Well, he is the Prime Minister, he needs to respond. 

BEVAN: But you haven't got any terms of reference that you can offer? 

ALBANESE: It's not my job to write the terms of reference for an inquiry. 

BEVAN: The terms of reference would have to begin, though, looking at the basis of the allegation. Because if you can't get over that hurdle, then there's no point of continuing. 

ALBANESE: Well, of course, they'd have to look at the basis of the allegation. 

BEVAN: But isn't that what the police are for? I mean, how could the inquiry do a better job than the police? 

ALBANESE: The police cannot look at it. That is what they have found. And they haven't examined the substance of the allegation because they've said they're unable to because the woman has taken her own life. 

BEVAN: And you think an inquirer should be given scope to do that, although the proper authority in this matter has said that it's not appropriate for us to go any further? 

ALBANESE: It occurs all the time. And I'll give you a big tip. If this was a senior person at the top of the ABC, or of other large organisations, there would be some form of inquiry. 

BEVAN: Anthony Albanese, thanks for your time. 

ALBANESE: Thanks very much, David. 

ENDS