SUBJECTS: Anthony Albanese’s COVID diagnosis; Federal election; Labor’s policy agenda; Solomon Islands; Australia’s relationship with the Pacific; Australia’s relationship with China; polls; Labor’s plan for a Better Future.
 
FRAN KELLY, HOST: Anthony Albanese, in iso, how are you feeling?
 
ANTHONY ALBANESE, LEADER OF THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY: Good afternoon, Fran. Well, I've had better days, but a lot of people have had it a lot worse. So, I'm one of the many millions of Australians who have gone through this. And I'm just taking the health advice. I will be isolating for seven days here at home in Marrickville. And hopefully, I get through it and I'm able to then re-join the campaign physically, rather than virtually from next week.
 
KELLY: And seven days in iso, what is that going to do to your campaign, do you think?
 
ALBANESE: Look, we war gamed this. It is not surprising. We've had during the campaign, already since Budget, we've had Jason Clare and Tony Burke and Kristina Keneally, and a range of people go down with COVID. And I think the same thing has happened on the other side, as well. So, we had war gamed the process. We set up so that people will come in and fill the appointments that I'd made. Richard Marles will be representing me at Anzac Day in Darwin. I was really looking forward to it. It's always a special day to pay tribute to the men and women who defended us and continue to do so. So, we'll get through it. This is Australia and indeed the world in 2022, unfortunately.
 
KELLY: Sure, but politics is a confidence game. I think even you'd concede your first week of this election campaign was not a great one for you. Your second week, you seemed to pick up a bit, you had a narrow win in the debate. What is this going to do to your momentum and your confidence?
 
ALBANESE: Well, we were getting momentum, but I'll be back for the second half. And this is a long campaign and if I was going to get COVID, it is better to have got it now than in the last three weeks of the campaign. We have our campaign launch in Perth on May 1. And hopefully, I'll be right to do that. I'm taking the health advice. I will get lots of rest, lots of fluids and everything else that my doctor has told me to do. I'll certainly take that advice.
 
KELLY: Alright. Well, meanwhile, the campaign goes on. The Prime Minister and Peter Dutton have been out again today, as they have this week, accusing Labor of siding with China in this whole issue and crisis around the Solomon Islands security pact. Their point is it's not Australia's fault that China is seeking to spread its influence in the Pacific, it's China's. Why are you blaming the Australian Government and not the Chinese Government?
 
ALBANESE: Well, it's absolutely right that China is more forward-leaning in the Pacific. That's the whole point. What was Australia doing in response to China's changed posture in our region? Australia has been the security partner of choice in the Pacific since the Second World War. The Prime Minister said just yesterday that they had known about the potential of this issue for a long period of time. We know they knew at least as far back as August. Where is the Foreign Minister? Where is she during this period? She appeared on the Insiders program and said it was all under control. The Government only sent a junior representative in Mr Seselja to Solomons in the last week. The United States have sent their senior representative in the region, Kurt Campbell, and have responded.
 
KELLY: Sure. But if the Government says they've taken the advice of the intelligence agencies in playing this more low-key, in sending that level of ministerial representation, what are you suggesting? They should have ignored the advice of the intelligence agencies?
 
ALBANESE: Come on, Fran. What I'm suggesting is that this Prime Minister never takes responsibility for anything. This is a massive foreign policy failure. The Government speaks about a Pacific step-up. This is a Pacific stuff-up. They, when they came to office, they cut aid to the region. They cut aid. They haven't built those intense relationships with countries in the region. And we know that the context of that, the forward-leaning approach of China, means that was more important than ever before. And Australia has simply dropped the ball. It's not just me saying that, Fran. Julie Bishop has said, and she knows something about foreign affairs, and she has said that the Foreign Minister should have been dispatched much earlier and there should have been senior representation to the Solomons as soon as Australia became aware that these issues were on the horizon.
 
KELLY: Okay. But, as you say, China is more forward-leaning, we all understand that. Some recent comments from your Deputy, Richard Marles, have surfaced today and he said, ‘The idea that Pacific nations would adhere to a call from Australia to not engage with China is silly’. Doesn't that undercut your criticism of this being the worst foreign policy failure?
 
ALBANESE: No, it doesn't at all. No, it doesn't, Fran. It doesn't. It's indicative of similar comments that Scott Morrison has made, which have been quoted today, as well in the past. China has changed its position. And what it means is that we have, as Kurt Campbell calls it, competition without catastrophe is what we need to aim for in the region. We need to recognise that there is that strategic competition in the region, that China is trying to extend its influence. If we are to maintain our influence, we need to respond, be forward-leaning, make sure that we're engaged on the policy issues that are of concern to the Solomons, but also be engaged with issues like foreign aid. Be partners of choice, that historically is the role that we have played in the Pacific.
 
KELLY: Yes, that's true, it is historically the role we've played. But the relationships and the power of China in our region has changed, too. Let's get real here. If you are elected Prime Minister, if you wake up on 22 May and you're Prime Minister, what would you do? What is the first action you would do to try and repair, in your words, the influence of Australia in the region? What step would you take?
 
ALBANESE: Well, I would engage with them and it's not just one step. The first step is that you need to have deeper relationships with your senior ministers, with the leadership in our region. We also need to engage with them on issues which are their concern. And we know that the number one concern for the Pacific is, of course, climate change and we would have a positive response on climate change. We want to host a Conference of the Parties of the UN together with our Pacific Island neighbours, for example. We wouldn't have a circumstance, Fran, remember that all of our Pacific Island neighbours have all seen that footage of Peter Dutton, there being a joke about islands going underwater, and the now-Prime Minister's response just being to refer to the boom mic that was above when those comments were made. That sort of insensitivity to major issues has undermined our standing in the region. The cutting of aid has undermined our standing in the region. We need to deepen the relationship with our neighbours.
 
KELLY: Yes, sorry to interrupt you there. But Senator Wong has said just not long ago, actually, that there will be more to say about more resources in the region. Are more dollars the answer? How much are you going to commit to that?
 
ALBANESE: Well, we'll make our announcements during the campaign. But if you look at what Labor did when we were last in office, we increased our presence in the region. It's not just a matter, as well, of aid - one of the things that's happened on this Government's watch is a gutting of our capacity in terms of diplomacy. Foreign affairs have had real cutbacks and it has inhibited our ability to actually engage in diplomatic activity in the region. We'll have more to say about that as well. That's part of how we need to rebuild the Public Service, including our foreign service.
 
KELLY: Let's go back to the campaign more broadly. Labor has just launched a pretty hard hitting attack ad on Scott Morrison. Is this your strategy to try and win this election, to attack Scott Morrison's character?
 
ALBANESE: Fran, it would be very difficult for us to come up with more attacks on Scott Morrison than the attacks from his own side. Barnaby Joyce has said that he knew him for, the longer he has known him, the more untrustworthy he has found him. You have the comments of Gladys Berejiklian saying that he cared more about politics than people during the bushfire crisis. You had Senator Fierravanti-Wells. You had a range of commentators, including the former Prime Minister, Malcolm Turnbull, saying that Scott Morrison was known as someone who told lies. The truth is that those people who have worked closest with Scott Morrison are the most repelled by him. And they've made some extraordinary comments over a period of time about the Prime Minister's character.
 
KELLY: Nevertheless, you've got the attack ads and you've also got some scare campaigns running on the Cashless Debit Card and also on Medicare. I mean, the truth is, this Government has increased funding to Medicare over the term of Coalition Government and not decreased it. Are we just going to see a re-run of the old Medi-scare? Is that the way you're going to try and win it?
 
ALBANESE: Fran, this Government made 900 changes to the Medicare schedule in July last year with very little notice to the AMA. People weren't sure what the implications would be for their hip replacement or for various medical procedures. They did that. The out-of-pocket expenses for Medicare are going up, so that they average around about $40 now. You had, in the Budget just a few weeks ago, two ministers, one in the House of Representatives, the Assistant Treasurer, and someone in the Senate, read into Hansard that there were going to be reductions in the costs of medicines. And then they changed the Hansard to say no, because they made a decision for cheaper medicines and then they withdrew that decision some time in between when those speeches for the budget were written. This is a Government that now have appointed Anne Ruston as the potential future Health Minister, who said that the existing Medicare system, based upon universality, was not sustainable.
 
KELLY: That was a long time ago that Anne Ruston said that. That was in the Abbott Government. That was a long time ago.
 
ALBANESE: During the time of this Government, Fran. During the time of this Government is when the punitive Health Minister made those comments.
 
KELLY: Just finally, Anthony Albanese, let's talk about the polls, because they've gone backwards. Labor's primary vote has gone backwards since the campaign started. And so, has your popularity as Prime Minister have gone backwards. The more people are seeing you on the hustings, it seems, the less they are liking you at the moment. I have to ask, does a week out of this campaign help or hinder you?
 
ALBANESE: Well, Fran, no-one wants to get COVID. So, I'll treat that question as that. No-one wants to get COVID. I didn't want to get COVID and I'll be back out there campaigning. I note the poll you referred to has a reduction of one point in our vote and a reduction of one point in the Coalition vote as well. So, people can read into that whatever they want. It's up to commentators to commentate. What I'm focused on is getting a Better Future for Australia. I'm focused on our positive agenda to strengthen Medicare, to make more things here, to address cost of cost of living pressures. This Government had no plan to address those issues. All they have is short-term measures that all end as soon as people have cast their votes. We have a plan for cheaper child care, a plan for cheaper electricity, a plan for more secure work, a plan to lift wages, a plan for housing affordability. We have those in place. And we'll be campaigning each and every day, whether it's our members and my frontbench team out there in person, or me virtually, as I'm doing right now, continue to argue the case that after a decade in office, a decade in office, this Government simply don't have any plans for the future. And they don't learn from their mistakes of the past. They're characterised by always going missing, whether it's what has occurred in the Solomons, ordering enough vaccines, ordering rapid antigen tests, or turning up for bushfires or turning up and giving support for flood victims when they're needed.
 
KELLY: Alright, Anthony Albanese, thanks for giving us your time in iso. I hope COVID doesn't hit too hard. Thank you.
 
ALBANESE: Thanks very much, Fran. And can I thank everyone for the really good wishes that I've got as well, I must say. It has been very heartening.
           
ENDS