SUBJECTS: Labor's $300 vaccine incentive; vaccine rollout, Labor’s policies; Morrison Government waste; Member for Gilmore, Fiona Phillips; National Cabinet, National Anti-Corruption Commission. 

LINDSAY MCDOUGALL, HOST: The vaccination targets shift to younger people, Federal Labor is sticking by its proposal to offer $300 payments as a way of stimulating the economy and getting more jabs in arms. We heard that from Whitlam MP, Stephen Jones yesterday. The idea was initially rejected by the Commonwealth and the Prime Minister reiterated that today in favour of incentives around freedom of movement, although Lieutenant General John Frewen has left the door open to that today. And regardless of how we get there, the modeling from the Doherty Institute says 70% is where we're looking, and the time it takes to get to 70 will likely play a role in the next election. Labor Leader, Anthony Albanese is with me right now. Good afternoon, Mr. Albanese. Hello there.

ANTHONY ALBANESE, LEADER OF THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY: Good afternoon. Good to be with you.

MCDOUGALL: Good to talk to you. Now, millions of Australians have already been vaccinated with no incentive besides not getting the coronavirus. Why should taxpayers pay for the vaccine hesitant?

ALBANESE: Because what we need to do is to get those vaccination rates up. And whilst many Australians have absolutely done the right thing, the truth is we're last in the developed world and we're not in the top 80 of countries in terms of vaccination rates. And what we need to do is to use every asset at our disposal to get those vaccination rates up. We know the big problem has been supply. And one of the problems that this might address as well is those people who are just frustrated because they've tried to make appointment after appointment and they just haven't been able to get one. And therefore it's not that they're hesitant, it's that they haven't been able to get one. But we know that increased supply is coming. It is belated, but it is coming. And we need to just do everything we can and that's why early this year, the Chief Medical Officer, Professor Kelly said that we needed to look at every incentive at our disposal. That's why today, Lieutenant General Frewen spoke about other cash incentives or lotteries or other measures being considered. Positive proposals he called them. This is a positive proposal, just like when we proposed wage subsidies last year, and the Government dismissed it as a dangerous idea. They went on to, of course, support JobKeeper. But initially they resisted it and opposed it. Hopefully, they get on board this positive idea as well.

MCDOUGALL: So, why cash and not discount vouchers, frequent fliers, incentives that lead directly to spending? Rather than cash which people may not necessarily spend, they might save, which is kind of what Labor says businesses do with tax cuts.

ALBANESE: No, overwhelmingly this will go to Australians who, a lot of them are doing it really tough at the moment. They deserve a reward for what the whole country's been through over the last two years. And overwhelmingly, this amount will be spent and will be spent in local small businesses at a time when at a time when economic stimulus is needed. We have a circumstance whereby we're likely to be in a negative quarter of the economy as we're, as we're speaking, that September quarter. What that means is that our economy is shrinking over a quarter of the year, over that three month period. After last year, of course, we went into the first recession in 30 years. So this is an expenditure, but compare with the cost of a lockdown that was estimated yesterday by the Treasurer in a press conference that the Treasury estimate the cost of one week of lockdown across the country is $3.8 billion. We know the current lockdowns, including there in the Illawarra that are impacting you there. Around about $2 billion between there and of course, Southeast Queensland. So in terms of opening up and getting people to get back to normal, we need to do two things, get the vaccination rates up and fix national quarantine as well. And this is put forward just as we've put forward a constructive suggestion about purpose built national quarantine in every state and territory. This has been put forward in a constructive manner. It's a pity that the Government have rejected it initially. But they've changed their mind before.

MCDOUGALL: What about the idea, we have industrial businesses like BlueScope Steel and mining companies keen to support the rollout in any way they can, vaccinating their workforce on site. Would you support that?

ALBANESE: Oh, absolutely. We've been calling for that. Not only the workforce on site, but we should be using every facility at our disposal. Like, it's absurd that 18 months into the pandemic, we've just started to use pharmacies. I don't know about you, Lindsay, but I get my flu jab every year at a local pharmacy. It's a walk in, gets done, it's efficient, they know what they're doing. You get it recorded through the Medicare system and you move on. Why aren't we using those facilities?

MCDOUGALL: What about this idea that the NRL has floated to only allow fully vaccinated people in to stadiums to watch the game. And it's now spreading further than the NRL in to the entertainment arena. How many Bunny supporters do you think are going to get the jab just to see Latrell Mitchell cross that try line?

ALBANESE: Oh, well, Latrell Mitchell, people should be prepared to do anything to watch him play, let me say, but Bruce Springsteen held a concert a short while ago, and in order to get into the concert in, in the US, I think it was in New York City, you had to show that you'd been vaccinated. In order to get on a plane to travel overseas, you will almost certainly have to be vaccinated. And that's been the case for a while, of course, we know that to travel to various countries, certainly, I've had to show my vaccination certificates to go to South America or to go to Asia to our north. So, that has been in place. What I'm about here, the discussion about mass activities, like football games, etc, will take place. But we're getting a little bit ahead of ourselves at this point, because we haven't got enough people vaccinated and it's not people's fault. It's the Government that have been responsible for the failure on supply.

MCDOUGALL: Well, I do want to go forward a little bit because the public has begun to get a peek at the new policy agenda that Labor is going to be bringing to the new election. And so far, a lot of it has been what you're not going to be bringing there's been changes to negative gearing and capital gains tax, they're reversing your stance on the third stage of tax cuts. And you've copped a bit of flack for ditching these positive policy positions. The SMH is also reporting that you're going to drop policies on free cancer treatments and dental care. I mean, surely those two would be great for our health and free up spending money for lots of older Australians?

ALBANESE: Yeah, well, don't believe everything you read in the paper. We'll make our policy announcements when we make them. If you look at that article, that was a headline in search of any detail. There was nothing in there in terms of detail. The fact is we have a whole range of policies out there. Cheaper childcare, a lift of the subsidy up to 90%, getting rid of the cap on the rebate. We have a policy for aged care, to fix the aged care crisis, including fixing the workforce. We have our policy about more secure work, recognising secure employment in the Fair Work Act. Outlawing, making it a criminal offence to have wage theft. Closing the gender pay gap. 10 days paid domestic and family violence leave. A policy defending Medicare. Our policy in terms of housing Australia Future Fund. The creation of Jobs and Skills Australia, so that we give Australians training. And of course, our National Reconstruction Fund to support new industries going forward, including the renewable energy sector and the opportunity, which is there.

MCDOUGALL: Well, let's talk about that because some senior Labor MPs recently visited BlueScope Steel, didn't say too much about policy. But are you prepared to share Labor's policy on building up a national hydrogen industry and how Port Kembla could play a role in that?

ALBANESE: Oh, absolutely. And I have visited BlueScope Steel as well with Stephen and Sharon, and spoke to the management there are about the opportunities that are there for a massive hydrogen industry. One of the things I announced in our first, my first Budget Reply was $20 billion for Rewiring the Nation. What that's about is fixing the transmission network so that renewables and newer forms of energy can fit into the grid as well. There's enormous opportunity that we have to power Australia and do it through cheaper means so that we're more competitive, so that we increase the value of our manufacturing. For too much, what we've done is export our resources, had things made overseas and then import them back at much greater value. Our exports of resources will continue to be important, but we should be making more things here and looking at areas like hydrogen industry, but also looking at how our resources in areas like lithium and nickel and copper can see us making batteries here, can see us creating new industries.

MCDOUGALL: There's a lot of spending, a lot of big spends that you've committed to, you've mentioned the childcare and the aged care. Also, social housing, 30,000 social housing units and affordable housing units for essential workers. If you are slimming down your tax reform policies such as negative gearing, where will you get the money from to build all those homes?

ALBANESE: Well, we'll announce all of our expenditure and all of our revenue well before the election, what we've outlined is a plan so that for example, the Housing Australia Future Fund will be a $10 billion investment that we will use the money earned from that investment to put back into housing. So, it is actually no cost to the bottom line, it's just being smarter about how we do things, just like the Clean Energy Finance Corporation has seen many hundreds of millions of dollars, and indeed billions since it was created, invested in renewable energy projects, and it's actually made money for the Government. If we're smart about things going forward, then we can, I think, be incredibly optimistic about Australia's opportunities in the future.

MCDOUGALL: Then until you do announce those policies, you have to expect things like happened in the House of Representatives yesterday. that heated exchange between you and the Prime Minister, when he accused you of being easily separated from your money.

ALBANESE: Well, this is the bloke who spent $100 billion in the last Budget, $100 billion in the Budget before that. So $200 billion with no offsets. And I'll tell you what we want do. Tell you where some saves will be. We won't do the Commuter Car Park rorts for commuter stations where there isn't even a train station, that's been criticised so much by the Government. We won't do Sports Rorts, we won't do programs like on JobKeeper, which is a great program, but why is it that the design of it meant that $13 billion at least, went to companies that increased their profits, they didn't decrease it. That just went to increase shareholder benefit. That didn't keep people in work, because people were going to be kept in work. Because we know the companies that they are, they're the ones with the wraparounds, and the ads every two seconds on TV. This is the sort of profligacy and waste that we've seen from the most wasteful Government since Federation.

MCDOUGALL: Let's talk about well, at least one marginal electorate, the electorate of Gilmore, still a marginal seat despite it being the only seat you took off the Coalition at the last election. What's your plan to shore up that electorate?

ALBANESE: I think Fiona will do exceptionally well. She's a great local member. She's consolidated, she ran for the second time in order to secure the seat. She stood up for her local community during the bushfire crisis, which of course have ravaged the entire electorate. And people remember that Scott Morrison went missing. Scott Morrison said that he didn't hold a hose and that he didn't have any responsibility. It was just something that was happening. He refused to take recommendations about aerial firefighting which could have assisted. He refused to meet with the experts who want..

MCDOUGALL: But he's not, he's not, you know, he's doesn't even live in the Gilmore electorate. There are lots of..

ALBANESE: He's the Prime Minister and leads the Government that has ignored the needs of the people of Gilmore.

MCDOUGALL: Well, New South Wales Transport Minister Andrew Constance may have a tilt. Are you concerned about a potential contest from him? He's very experienced, he was very visible. He was right there during the bushfires and very popular locally.

ALBANESE: He was there. To his credit, the only political leader in the country who should have been there, who really did go missing and who I think showed a disregard for the crisis, was Scott Morrison and he leads the Government. And the next election will be about whether Scott Morrison continues to lead the country, and given the arrogance that this Government has shown, reaching almost, they've almost been there for a decade. Imagine how arrogant they'll be if they get a fourth term.

MCDOUGALL: Will the next election also be, I guess you spent a lot of time visiting 17 electorates in Queensland. Is that where the party, do you think the party needs to focus its energy in those traditional Labor seats in mining regions?

ALBANESE: Well, I think right throughout Queensland is important. There's no question about that, we need to do better in Queensland to win government. We need to do better in Western Australia, but we also need to hold on to the seats that we have, including Gilmore and Eden-Monaro, as well as of course, Whitlam, as it's called now, and Cunningham. And we will be campaigning strongly in all of those seats as well as, of course, in the seat of Hume, where Angus Taylor, I think, deserves a good campaign against him. I think that it will be very difficult to find someone whose ability, from his own perspective, there's such a gap between that and what he's actually achieved. This is a bloke who has opposed renewable energy. This is a bloke who's now trying to trash again, the Australian Renewable Energy Agency.

MCDOUGALL: Can I just take you back to I guess, the pandemic and the states a little bit? We have five of the nine leaders of states and territories being Labor leaders. Do you still want a seat at the table of national cabinet? What would the Opposition Leader do?

ALBANESE: Well, I never asked for one.

MCDOUGALL: Oh, okay. Well..

ALBANESE: I never asked for one, I said that was a matter for the Prime Minister. He chose to run the National Cabinet the way that he has, and I think everyone can see for themselves the fact that it hasn't brought the country together in terms of there's not a united, a cabinet decision is binding on everyone. What we're seeing with the National Cabinet is really coordination. The State Premiers and Chief Ministers tell each other what they're doing and then it's announced but I don't think anyone could argue there's been uniform response. And in part that's because the Prime Minister went out there for example, and said we had the gold standard in New South Wales when he was criticising Victoria's lockdowns. Now, only yesterday, really, did we see the concession from the Prime Minister, that lockdowns are necessary, unfortunately, if we're not going to have longer outbreaks, with more damaging consequences, both for people's health, but also for the economy. And people in Greater Sydney, including the Illawarra are experiencing that at the moment, that Gladys Berejiklian should have taken action earlier. And that's pretty obvious to all.

MCDOUGALL: Well, I've got a question from Chris, and I'll finish up with this. He wants to know, and this is his words, considering the almost disaster in the vaccine rollout, the now $1 million cost to the taxpayer with Christine Holgate, the payout that she received today, the lack of any accountability by ministers, this is what Chris is saying, Labor should be miles ahead, but they seem not to be. Why do you think that is Anthony?

ALBANESE: Well, look at the, it's been a long time since we were behind in the polls. We have been consistently ahead and on matters like that, in terms of waste as well, part of the campaign for the next election is about whether people want a fair dinkum National Anti-Corruption Commission. And the fact is that during a pandemic, if the Government had done its job, then there is [inaudible]. That's what happens during a crisis. People look towards leaders and will tend to back the back them in. That's what we saw in every State and Territory election that's been held since the beginning of last year. But with Scott Morrison has failed on the two jobs that he had, and Australians, I think, recognise that and also recognise there's no positive plan going forward to actually build back stronger.

MCDOUGALL: Are you pushing for a Federal ICAC then?

ALBANESE: Absolutely. We will have a National Anti-Corruption Commission. It will be able to have independent inquiries, it will be able to assert itself to restore confidence in the political process. And that's something that is necessary.

MCDOUGALL: Anthony Albanese, good to talk to you. Thank you very much. Have a great evening.

ALBANESE: Thanks very much.

ENDS