SUBJECTS: Labor’s $300 vaccine incentive proposal; vaccine rollout; need for national quarantine facilities; next Federal election; Labor’s policy agenda.

VIRGINIA TRIOLI, HOST: Mr Albanese, good morning. Good to talk to you again.

ANTHONY ALBANESE, LEADER OF THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY: Good morning, Virginia. And good on Morgan for getting fully vaccinated. 

TRIOLI: He didn't need your $300 there. 

ALBANESE: What we are after, Virginia, with respect to Morgan, good on him, but we're after people who've never rung into a radio station in their life and never will, which is most Australians.

TRIOLI: Watch it.

ALBANESE: That is just true. 

TRIOLI: Don't come and insult our business model.

ALBANESE: It is just a fact. You have more listeners than speakers. That's the business model. If not, you are in real trouble as a radio station. What we are about here is just a common sense, practical, constructive proposal, which is good in terms of health. I haven't heard anyone argue that less people will be vaccinated because of it. And guess what? The economy's tanking, small businesses and workers have been really hit hard, as you know, by various lockdowns that are continuing, of course, in Greater Sydney and southeast Queensland. So an economic stimulus as well, $300 cash that would be spent supporting local jobs, I mean, it's a win-win proposal. And it's put forward constructively.

TRIOLI: Although, you know very well if you propose it as the Leader of the Opposition, the Government isn't ever going to take it up. So it's just a cheap shot or a chance to try and wedge them in some way. Because they are never going to turn around and say, 'It is a good idea from the Federal Opposition, we will do that'.

ALBANESE: No, they never do on the day. They always respond negatively. Perhaps it is because they can't recognise an investment that goes to everyone as opposed to one with a marginal seat map, like their so-called Commuter Car Parks Program. This goes to everyone. But I will tell you what, Virginia, I was on this program talking with you about wage subsidies and why they were necessary. The Government was saying it was a dangerous idea. But when the queues formed outside Centrelink, the Government came up with JobKeeper after many weeks of Labor, the business community, the union movement all campaigning for it.

TRIOLI: To be fair to the Government, they are considering proposals and incentives of their own, perhaps frequent flyer points. So there's probably not much in this. Is there really a difference?

ALBANESE: This is just a practical proposal. Last year, the Chief Medical Officer, Dr Kelly, said that we need to look at all incentives. As many incentives as we can was what he proposed. If you look at the response that was released last Friday by the Prime Minister, Phase B included measures encouraging uptake through incentives. So we're putting this forward in a constructive way. I am amazed that this Government doesn't consider anything that they don't come up with themselves. But if you look at the failures with the rollout of the vaccine and the failure to have national quarantine, perhaps they should listen. 

TRIOLI: Let's see if they take up your idea or some different form of it in the next few weeks. But some issues to get through this morning, and the most pressing one is really that news that's just broken about two and a half thousand Qantas and Jetstar employees to be stood down for around two months in response to the ongoing COVID-19 outbreaks. Now, we've heard about the payments, airline retention payments for pilots and cabin crew. Is that going to be enough?

ALBANESE: I certainly hope so. But perhaps not, Virginia. This news has just broken. And the truth is that these lockdowns have an impact not just those people directly affected, but indirectly affected as well. So for example, Far North Queensland hasn't had lockdowns but has been massively impacted by the fact that people from New South Wales and for a long period, Victoria, weren't able to get there.

TRIOLI: So what's the remedy here? Qantas is well within its rights to do that. If there's no business, they can stand these people down. What should be the assistance for those workers?

ALBANESE: Well, there needs to be more support for them. We said early on, of course, we said JobKeeper should be restored. That's another example of where the Government said, 'That's a crazy idea' before they came up with a figure that's exactly the same as what JobKeeper was of $750 for some people. But the problem here is that it is only people in directly affected areas. There has been some additional support announced for the aviation sector. That's something that we have welcomed. I had a discussion with Alan Joyce in the last week. He was certainly hopeful that this wasn't going to eventuate. Clearly, the ongoing impact as well of southeast Queensland being locked down, together with Greater Sydney, is having a massive impact on the sector. And that's why the idea that we don't need any economic stimulus, which this $300 payment would provide, is, I think, just not understanding of how tough people are doing it out there.

TRIOLI: New South Wales, does it need to get to zero community transmissions of COVID before it opens up, before it's out of lockdown? 

ALBANESE: Well, they clearly need less. They need to take the health advice. 

TRIOLI: The tradition has been in other states for there to be several consecutive days of zero new infections in the community. Do you think that same standard still applies in New South Wales?

ALBANESE: Well, they certainly need to take the health advice. And it needs to be at the very least heading in that direction. And they need to be confident that they are on top of it. One of the things that we saw earlier this year, was, unfortunately, a bit of criticism, not a bit, a lot, of Victoria. The truth is, the actions of the Andrews Government have been proven to be very prescient, indeed. Because last time Parliament sat, Scott Morrison was saying it was a good thing that New South Wales was remaining open. We know now many weeks later, Sydney's locked down, it'll be locked down for a considerable period of time to come. And the figures just aren't coming down. Because it did get to the point whereby it wasn't being reduced. There wasn't strong enough action early enough. And that's the lesson that is there. Queensland, of course, have taken very quick action, I note, in recent days. And that's tough for people. It's really tough. But we know the consequences are worse if you don't act.

TRIOLI: Anthony Albanese is with you this morning, the Federal Labor Leader. While I have you, I did want to ask you about the consequences of abandoning your policies like restricting negative gearing and your long-standing promise to half the 50 per cent capital gains tax deduction. How can you say that you stand for Australians who are struggling with housing affordability, when, amongst others, those key policy principles are ones that are going to make it harder now in an overheated market for Australians to get into the housing market?

ALBANESE: I have announced, Virginia, the largest ever Commonwealth support for social housing and affordable housing that would come from a Commonwealth Government in our history.

TRIOLI: Sorry to jump in here. But if you don't actually deal with policy settings that, privately, both sides of government admit are a heavy cost on the budget, and at some point, will have to be reckoned with, if you're not brave enough to go out and argue for them, then you're hampering the market itself no matter how much money you put into social housing.

ALBANESE: What putting money into social housing is increase supply and it will have an impact. We will have more to say in the area of housing. It's an area that I've studied, that I've had the privilege of representing in the Parliament. It's something that has been the focus of one of my strong policy interests. And we will continue to have more to say about it. The truth is we went to the last election with a policy and were not successful. And we need to not relitigate the past. I'm concerned about the future. And we will have future policies, including the one that we have announced for a Housing Australia Future Fund, a $10 billion fund, that will make an enormous difference to people who are struggling to get access to social housing, and as well for affordable housing for essential workers.

TRIOLI: Speaking of relitigating the past, that seems to be what this policy shift has awoken the ghosts of for some Labor supporters. And they've been vocal in the paper here, in The Age, and also here in text messages to me about the Labor change. That it goes to the past that has woken up is the idea of being a small-target Party or taking a small target approach into a Federal election, something that famously Kim Beazley tried, of course, and failed at. It didn't work for him. It wouldn't work for your lot, would it?

ALBANESE: We will have an ambitious plan for the next Federal election. But I will make this point, because I have read some of the letters in The Age.

TRIOLI: Some of them are saying they're reconsidering their membership of the Labor Party.

ALBANESE: Let me tell you that Gough Whitlam in 1972, I haven't heard anyone argue that was a small-target Government. He didn't take new taxes to the election in 1972. Bob Hawke didn't take new taxes to the election in 1983. And Kevin Rudd didn't take new taxes to the election in 2007. That doesn't mean that there wasn't substantial reform by those Labor governments. Labor governments of which I was proud to serve under Rudd and Gillard. But Gough Whitlam, I say to people to go back and have a look at what his program was, have a look at history. And if you don't look at history, you will be subject to repeating it. We will have a strong program on climate change, on our National Reconstruction Fund, on providing secure work, on cheaper child care, on addressing the aged care crisis. Across the board, we will have very strong progressive policies and a real alternative to the current Government.

TRIOLI: I guess you just don't scare the horses first time around is what you're saying there. You don't scare them when you're trying to win from opposition with an ambitious policy slate, you bring that in later, is that what you're saying there, Anthony Albanese?

ALBANESE: What I am saying is you do need to recognise elections do change the country. And when you put forward ideas at elections, if you put forward the same ideas, you should expect the same result. What we're concerned about is putting forward a real alternative, constructive ideas, that will change the country for the better, that will make sure we grow back stronger. That we learn the lessons, as well, that have come out in this pandemic of the weaknesses in our economy. The issues that people are raising with me, the main issue is all about insecurity at work. We have a comprehensive plan to address that, including the issue of gender equality.

TRIOLI: Good to talk to you this morning, Anthony Albanese. Thank you for your time. 

ALBANESE: Thanks very much, Virginia.

ENDS