SUBJECTS: Cost of living, Budget; Federal election; Labor’s policy agenda; Passing of Senator Kimberley Kitching.
 
MICHAEL ROWLAND, HOST: Now, cost of living will be front of mind for voters in the forthcoming Federal election, a key focus of next week's Budget too. The Federal Opposition Leader, Anthony Albanese joins us now from Sydney. Mr Albanese, good morning to you.
 
ANTHONY ALBANESE, LEADER OF THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY: Good morning, Michael.
 
ROWLAND: Lots to get through. I want to start with the Budget. And there are some speculations that the Government will announce a temporary reduction in the fuel excise next week. If it does that, is it something Labor will support?
 
ALBANESE: The real problem here, Michael, is on cost of living is that wages simply aren't going up but everything else is. Petrol was almost $2 a litre prior to the actions, the outrageous actions, of Russia in Ukraine. Housing costs are going up, the cost of food and groceries are going up. These are all having an impact on people's capacity to pay their bills and to get by. The only thing that isn't going up is wages and wages are projected to fall in real terms again further over the next four years. This is a Government that have been in office for almost a decade. They're shooting for more than that for their second decade in office. They don't have a plan to lift living standards. We have a plan for cheaper child care, for lower electricity prices, and for taking pressure off families by lifting wages.
 
ROWLAND: I'll ask that question again. Would you support a temporary reduction in the fuel excise?
 
ALBANESE: Well, we'll wait and see what they do.
 
ROWLAND: You support it in principle?
 
ALBANESE: We'll wait and see. We will support action that takes pressure off family budgets, but what we know is that there's a range of measures that from putting pressure on family budgets, the biggest one of which is that wages simply aren't keeping up with the cost of living.
 
ROWLAND: Okay. Now, you, among many Labor luminaries went to Kimberley Kitching's funeral in Melbourne earlier this week, but her friends and family and colleagues and the Labor Party still insist the former Labor Senator was mercilessly bullied often by senior Labor figures. Why won't you set up an independent investigation to look into these claims?
 
ALBANESE: We have our processes that are ongoing. They were established in 2018. They were updated in 2021. They're in place, a comprehensive process. Any complaints that are made can go through that process. We're quite happy, Michael, I did with the update in 2021 to look at our procedures, we can always do better. We need to make sure, though, that we draw a distinction over what is a competitive business from time to time because people are passionate about their views, sometimes those debates can be robust, but the issue that's been raised with me is the issue of that's been raised publicly as well is Kimberley Kitching's position on the tactics committee. From time to time, people are removed or replaced or stood aside from tactics committees and they go back on, I, myself, was in that position during this term. Joel Fitzgibbon was replaced on the committee in the House by Chris Bowen. I didn't go on after the 2013 election even though I had been the chair for a long period of time. We have had various changes to committees. They happen all the time. And unfortunately, there's always more people want positions than positions which are there whether it's shadow ministries. I know that I was lobbied by others who wanted to be an Assistant Shadow Minister that I chose to give that position to Kimberley. And I chose to keep her in that position for the term. This is a tragic loss and the farewell for Kimberley on Monday was a very sad day for the Labor family, but more importantly it was a tragic day for her husband, Andrew, for her mum and dad who I got to meet on Monday, and that's why I have instituted a Kimberley Kitching Human Rights Award to be presented at every national conference so that there's a legacy for Kimberley's ongoing contribution and commitment to international democracy.
 
ROWLAND: I'm sure the family would welcome that. But I want to take you back to your reference there to politics being robust. We all know it is and competitive, but what Kimberley Kitching herself told journalists and her colleagues went well beyond that. I'll ask the question again. What are you afraid of? Why don't you set up an independent investigation separate to those complaint processes you just talked about to get to the bottom of what went on here?
 
ALBANESE: But we have the processes.
 
ROWLAND: But why not set up an independent investigation separate to that?
 
ALBANESE: They are independent processes.
 
ROWLAND: Are they?
 
ALBANESE: That's the whole point.
 
ROWLAND: Is there an investigation underway at the moment?
 
ALBANESE: That's the whole point. No there was not, there's no complaint made, Michael, at any stage. My office is open to every member of the caucus to walk through. I had a number of one-on-one meetings with Kimberley since I have been the Leader of the Labor Party. At no stage did she complain to me about any issues at all. And my door is open to everyone. We have had independent, confidential investigations that have taken place under our processes that we unanimously agreed to. But I do note – the Prime Minister out there pushing these issues. What the Prime Minister does is set up investigations by his own departmental secretary into what his office knew themselves, and we never hear from them. We won't take lectures from this Prime Minister who hates transparency and is not accountable for actions. This is a tragic loss of life. There's only one suggestion that I have seen or heard about an inappropriate comment to Kimberley Kitching. Only one. It was apologised for and the person involved believes that that apology was accepted.
 
ROWLAND: We're talking about Penny Wong here telling Kimberley Kitching that if she had kids, she'd understand the climate emergency. What does that say about Penny Wong?
 
ALBANESE: Penny Wong is an outstanding Leader of the Labor Party in the Senate. She has completely my confidence. What that says is that Penny Wong, as she said, regrets the statement. She said something in a context, I'm not sure what it was, but it was clearly inappropriate. Kimberley Kitching was offended by it. She apologised. Michael, I don't know if you can put your hand on heart and say you have never said anything to anyone that caused offence. I can't. In politics, let me tell you, let me tell you this, Michael. From time to time there would barely be a week go past, myself as Leader of the Labor Party is not offended by, a statement made by someone in politics or indeed someone in the media.
 
ROWLAND: You have mentioned the Prime Minister raising this. Yes, he has. But to be fair, a lot of this has also been raised by members of your own Party, Kimberley Kitching's family members as well. You have gone after the Government repeatedly over the treatment of women, over alleged bullying. Given that you won't set up a separate inquiry into what went on with Kimberley Kitching, that's more than a bit hypocritical, isn't it, Anthony Albanese?
 
ALBANESE: No, it's not, Michael. No-one has been able to say what the terms of reference would be, how you would do this.
 
ROWLAND: You're the Leader. That's a job for you, isn't it? Can't you come up with a terms of reference as the Leader of the Party to investigate what went on here?
 
ALBANESE: We know what went on. And there have been responses to it on the issue of how the statement by Penny Wong, she apologised to Kimberley Kitching in person, and she stated she regrets making that statement. On the issue of the Tactics Committee, that has happened in terms of, from time to time, people go off committees. That's not anything other than the normal processes of politics. The other issues I have seen raised - whether the Party or somebody should have paid for Kimberley Kitching's trip to Europe to receive the Magnitsky award. Last time I went to Europe, I paid it for myself, I met the Portuguese Minister and Foreign Ministers, that's what people do, they have an allowance for that. There is a budget for the leaders. On the issue of was Kimberley Kitching demoted in terms of her frontbench position? I put Kimberley Kitching on the frontbench. She changed her title, as other people do in reshuffles, that's what happens in a reshuffle. And she was made Assistant Shadow Minister in Bill Shorten's portfolio. They were closest of friends. And I thought that was a logical thing to do. So, what exactly remains outstanding? Were there some tensions within the Labor Party? Clearly, there were between individuals. Are there ongoing tensions between individuals in the Labor Party from time to time? Yes, there are. What we need to do is to make sure we're conscious of it, that we deal with debates in a mature way, that we treat each other respectfully, and I think that's an ongoing issue. It's an ongoing issue in the treatment, might I say this, in the treatment as well, and some of the things that have been said including some of the terms that are used about our Senate leadership. Do I have absolute confidence in our Senate leadership? I'll say this about Senator Wong, Senator Gallagher and Senator Keneally. They, as part of the move towards 50 per cent of female representation in the Labor Caucus, are part of the solution. All of them are making an outstanding contribution. And they will be fine Cabinet Ministers if we're able to be elected in the May election.
 
ROWLAND: And voters will make up their minds about that. Time for one more quick election. Speaking of the election it could be called feasibly at the end of next week. Labor is yet to preselect a candidate for Parramatta, the sitting Labor Member is retiring. Is it true you're supporting former Rudd advisor Andrew Charlton to be dropped into that seat?
 
ALBANESE: Well, I have had discussions with Julie Owens, the local member, is who I have been talking with. And I have been talking to others as well. We'll be calling nominations for that process. And I'll allow the Party's processes to take place. But I'll say this about Andrew Charlton. He's someone who established a business, was a successful business. He sold that business, he's a great success story. He's someone who is an outstanding contributor to public debate, particularly in the area of economics, but there are other people as well who are entitled to put forward their views. There's a range of candidates.
 
ROWLAND: And a few diverse candidates. And it's a very multicultural seat. And they're a bit unhappy if Andrew Charlton, who lives in Sydney's ritzy eastern suburbs 30kms away from Parramatta, is then parachuted into that Labor's seat in Sydney's west. What do you say to them?
 
ALBANESE: Well, we'll have those discussions and the deliberations. It was hoped that a consensus candidate in Parramatta would emerge. Those discussions are ongoing. And I'll keep my discussions about the respective merits of candidates. I'm sure there are many. One of the great things about the Labor Party is that there's a lot of people who want to represent us, who are talented, who have something to offer the Labor Party. I know that, Julia Finn, for example, would have been a potential very good candidate. She's chosen, I had discussions with her, Chris Minns was keen to keep Julia as part of his team. We have an abundance of talent on offer for a range of seats. What I'm very confident of is that if we're successful in May, I'll lead a Government that's the most experienced incoming Labor Government since Federation. And our Party has been around for over 130 years. And I'm confident that we will represent Australia well and give Australia a Government they can be proud of.
 
ROWLAND: Anthony Albanese, thank you for joining us this morning.
 
ALBANESE: Thanks very much, Michael.
 
ENDS