SUBJECTS: Visit to WA; WA borders reopening; Premier Mark McGowan; WA and Clive Palmer’s legal case; Federal election; Labor’s policy agenda; Ukraine-Russia tensions; passing of Rod Marsh; climate change; Labor’s Powering Australia Plan; cost of living; secure work; fuel prices; Australia’s relationship with China; national security; refugees; superannuation.
 
NADIA MITSOPOULOS, HOST: The Opposition Leader, Anthony Albanese, promised to get on the first flight to WA once the border reopened. And that's exactly what he did. He is in the studio with me now and standing by to take your calls. So, if you've got a question for the man who wants to be the next Prime Minister, call now, asking whatever you want. 1300 222 720. Anthony Albanese, good morning and welcome back.
 
ANTHONY ALBANESE, LEADER OF THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY: Good morning, Nadia. It is great to be here in Perth. Great to be in the studio.
 
MITSOPOULOS: Sad news about the death of Rod Marsh.
 
ALBANESE: It's tragic news. Rod Marsh was a legend. I grew up watching Rod Marsh keep for Australia. That combination of caught Marsh, bowled Lillee, the magnificent performance during the centenary test. And he was also such a great bloke. He became chairman of selectors. I met him a couple of times. He was a real gentleman, a great character, a great West Australian. And he, together with Lillee, I'll never forget that combination. And he changed the way that wicket keeper batsman played. I think Rod Marsh, we had Alan Knott around about the same time in England, but he paved the way for Gilly and others, the swashbuckling test batsman and keeping, at the same time. A great loss. And my condolences to his family and his many friends here in Western Australia in particular.
 
MITSOPOULOS: Okay. I've got Kim who's joining me to pay tribute as well after nine o'clock. But let's get back to you. WA hasn't been kind to Labor in recent Federal elections? You only hold a handful of seats here. What makes you think the state's going to look more favourably at you and your Party this time around?
 
ALBANESE: Well, I think they've been forgotten by Scott Morrison's Government. Scott Morrison's Government chose to back in Clive Palmer's court case against West Australians. Mark McGowan has done a great job of keeping Western Australian safe. WA, compared with the rest of the country, has been open. People have been going to school, going to work, going to university. The economy has been contributing here in the West, really holding up the national economy. And I think when it comes to the WA Liberal Party as well, you've seen people like Julie Bishop and Mathias Cormann, Christian Porter's leaving, Michael Keenan, you've seen the A-team leave. And I think Western Australians are open to our message, our message about cheaper child care, a future made here in Australia, standing up for Western Australia, the opportunity that is there to act on climate change, to make more things here. I have been to the nickel refinery here at Kwinana. You have lithium, you have all these reserves of minerals. You could make more things here. And we could see the economy really grow here. So, I think that this is a Government that are out of time. They're out of ideas. They're at the end of their life, I think, if you look at it. No agenda for today, let alone for tomorrow.
 
MITSOPOULOS: Bill Shorten lost the last election because he had those big policy ideas that were very easily attacked. I mean, what is your tactic going into this election? Stay a little quiet and not have those big policy ideas that Bill Shorten had that sort of backfired on him?
 
ALBANESE: Well, we've got big policy ideas, but they're fully costed. And we're saying exactly what they are. In terms of cheaper child care, for example, that was in my first Budget Reply. Affordable and social housing support through that Housing Australia Future Fund that was the centrepiece of my second reply. Our climate change policy that'll create 604,000 new jobs, that will see $52 billion of private sector investment, that will provide the certainty that the business community have been asking for. And that's why it's been endorsed by the Business Council, the Australian Industry Group, the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry, as well as the National Farmers' Federation, as well as the trade union movement. We want to work with business in order to transform the economy, to take advantage of action on climate change through cheap, clean energy. The West can be, in particular, a great beneficiary of green hydrogen and growing that industry, something I talked with Mark McGowan about just yesterday. I think during the last campaign, there were questions that, frankly, we didn't have enough answers for. We've made sure that every single one of our policies is properly costed and that it's out there for all to see.
 
MITSOPOULOS: Climate change is a big issue. How do you propose to get to net zero by 2050?
 
ALBANESE: Well, by having our plan which we'll get to 43 per cent reduction by 2030. We'll have a plan of fixing electricity transmission around the country, to bring it forward into the 21st century, to support renewables as part of the grid, to support industries being able to transform through our National Reconstruction Fund. This is an opportunity to not just transform existing industries, but to grow new industries, to grow jobs, which will, at the same time, of course, reduce emissions.
 
MITSOPOULOS: The UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres, this week reiterated that the world must stop all new fossil fuel projects to avoid a climate catastrophe. Do you agree with that sentiment?
 
ALBANESE: Well, what we're seeing is a transition. We're seeing, for example, no new coal-fired power stations built in Australia. The Federal Government is still funding a feasibility study for a plant at Collinsville in North Queensland that they know won't go ahead.
 
MITSOPOULOS: Beyond coal though, sorry to interrupt, he's saying no new fossil fuel projects at all. Do you agree with that? Because, of course, we have here Woodside pushing ahead with approvals for the Scarborough Gas Project. Should that project be going ahead in light of your climate change targets and what the UN Secretary General is saying, and all those scientists that contributed to the IPCC report this week?
 
ALBANESE: Well, our climate change position is out there for all to see. We can reach 43 per cent whilst not stopping projects subject to, of course, environmental approvals going forward. You can't immediately say, 'We'll just stop using all fossil fuels today'. That's a recipe for not being able to continue to grow the economy. And we need to transition. But as far as new clean energy, what we're seeing as the market operating saying that the cheapest form of new energy in Australia is overwhelmingly renewable. That's where the investment is going. And that's where business is going as well.
 
MITSOPOULOS: So, does that mean you support Scarborough going ahead or not?
 
ALBANESE: Yes, subject to approvals of the environmental approvals, state and federal.
 
MITSOPOULOS: But it has.
 
ALBANESE: Well, yes, is the answer. Our plan put forward doesn't envisage the Federal Government coming in and stopping projects. What we say is that in terms of projects going forward, if they've received appropriate environmental approvals, then the market will determine international response. They will determine whether there's an export market for our resources. Domestically, what we're seeing is a massive shift towards renewables. And our plan sees renewables as being 82 per cent of the national market by 2030.
 
MITSOPOULOS: Labor Leader, Anthony Albanese, is my guest this morning. He's here to take your call. So, let's get to some of them. 1300 222 720. I'll just finish off on climate change with Sue, who has a question for you. Good morning, Sue.
 
ALBANESE: Hi, Sue.
 
SUE, CALLER: Hello. I just want to know the promises that you're making about climate change are real and that they happen? Because into the future, and Woodside's position up there with their project, that's going to be spewing out greenhouse gases for the next 50 years. That goes well beyond 2050. And we could be reducing them. So, we need have Federal intervention if the state laws aren't covering that sort of longevity of the emissions.
 
ALBANESE: Well, our commitments are real. And our commitment to net zero by 2050 is absolutely real. And we will legislate it. But net zero doesn't mean absolute zero. There's a difference. That means that any emissions are offset. That's what net zero means, not zero emissions. Because that is just not a feasible proposition. But our plan is also for a 43 per cent reduction by 2030. And I'll say this about the resources sector, including here in WA. The resources sector, by and large, all of the companies, including Woodside, actually have a stronger target than the Federal Government's target of a reduction in emissions by 26-28 per cent by 2030. They're actually ahead of where our national Government is, which is just indicative of the fact that the national Government is a handbrake on action.
 
MITSOPOULOS: Sue, thank you very much for that. Graham, good morning. What's your question?
 
GRAHAM, CALLER: Good morning. I agree with Anthony. I think this Government's use by date has come. However, I struggle to understand going in with a very small target strategy. I think that's well-explained by the commentators. What does Labor stand for in regards with tax policy? You went to the last election with a set of policies. And I actually don't think people didn't vote for Labor because of the policies. I think they didn't vote for Labor because they didn't like Bill Shorten. So, what's the point in forming Government if no one actually understands what your agenda is. What are you wanting to achieve?
 
ALBANESE: Well, our agenda is to do three things around the theme of a better future. The first is more secure work by dealing with issues like the gig economy, by making sure that secure work is part of the Fair Work Act. Ten days paid domestic family violence leave, closing the gender pay gap, making sure that wage theft is a crime, making sure the people doing the same job get the same pay. A whole agenda to lift wages. That is the first one. The second part of the agenda is to lift living standards by protecting Medicare, providing more affordable child care, addressing the issues of housing affordability, in order to lift living standards. At the moment, wages aren't keeping up with the cost of living. And the third is a Future Made in Australia, which our climate change policy is a part of that. Our National Reconstruction Fund, making sure that we have, later this morning, I'll be at a TAFE, we want to offer 465,000 free TAFE places to make sure Australians can get skills and be able to fill those jobs. 20,000 additional university places. Our agenda is a smarter Australia. One that grows the economy, one that lifts living standards. And it's a big agenda. What we don't have is, when some of the commentators say, 'You have a small agenda', what they're really saying is, 'We want to go out and whack you during an election campaign saying that you're going to end the world because of a particular new tax'. I make no apologies for learning some of the lessons of the last campaign, some of which was that people didn't support policies that we put forward, like franking credits. You've got to acknowledge that. If you do the same thing, you should expect the same result. I want a different result. I want to be in Government. And I want to change the country for the better.
 
MITSOPOULOS: Deborah has a question about franking credits. Is that an issue? You're not touching those?
 
ALBANESE: We're not touching them.
 
MITSOPOULOS: Not touching them. Okay. That answers Deborah's question. Thank you very much for that. 1300 222 720 if you've got a question for the Opposition Leader, Anthony Albanese. There is concern, and I noticed Ben Morton in the paper today make some criticisms about you and the fact that you've never held a financial portfolio, you don't have much experience in terms of national security and haven't held a national security portfolio. And often, it can be a risky move changing governments during international conflicts like we're seeing in Russia and Ukraine at the moment. Is there a vulnerability there with you?
 
ALBANESE: Well, that's just Liberal Party spin. That's the truth. And Ben Morton is out there doing his bit to spin nonsense. I have an economics degree. I've been the Infrastructure Minister during the Global Financial Crisis. I attended the first G20 meeting that the world ever had in London as part of the Australian delegation with the Prime Minister Rudd and Treasurer Swan at that time. Infrastructure is about driving productivity and economic growth. Scott Morrison hadn't held the Defence portfolio. So, that's just absurd. I've been in Parliament now for 26 years. I've been Deputy Prime Minister. I've been Acting Prime Minister. I've served on the Expenditure Review Committee. I've served on the National Security Committee. As the Leader of the Opposition for the last three years, I have regular briefings with ASIO, with ASIS, with all of our intelligence agencies as well, including about Ukraine and Russia, including about China, all of these issues I'm on top of. I have briefings, as well, from the Defence Forces. And if you look at what the comments that the current Head of ASIO and others in the Secretary of the Department of Defence, they have actually criticised this Government for playing politics with national security issues. That's something I won't do. I've always put the national interest first. And I would do so as Prime Minister of the country. I've been Acting Prime Minister. Scott Morrison acts as if he's the Prime Minister sometimes because he will never accept responsibility. He's had the job for four years. And he's most common response is, 'It's not my job', or 'Someone else is responsible'. Whether it be the states, he's always passing off responsibility to others.
 
MITSOPOULOS: It is 12 to nine. Anthony Albanese, the Labor Leader, is my guest on ABC Radio Perth and WA. And this leads nicely into Steven, who wants to ask you about China. Because there is a perception that you are soft on China's. Steven, what is your question?
 
STEVEN, CALLER: Look, I have no idea if Anthony Albanese is soft on China. But I do know that Scott Morrison seems to want to make a stick out of every possible chance he can. And it worries me deeply. What I want to know, Mr Albanese, is what will a Labor Government do to build a respectful, long-term relationship with China?
 
ALBANESE: Well, what we need to do is, I think, to adopt the Biden administration's philosophy, if you like, that they put out there. People like Kirk Campbell have spoken about the relationship with China as being one of competition without catastrophe. So, we need to recognise that China has changed its posture. We would have the same position on the South China Sea, treatment of Uyghurs, Hong Kong, Taiwan, all of these issues. And we call upon China to remove the economic sanctions it has put in place. But we need to engage in the world with the three pillars of our foreign policy, which is our alliance with the United States, engagement with our regional neighbours, and also engagement through multilateral forums such as the United Nations. One of the things we've seen from this Government is an attempt to politicise and play domestic politics with international issues. And that's been called out. It's been called out by senior people in the national security establishment who've been around for a very long period of time, like Dennis Richardson, who've said that does not serve Australia's national interest. And Dennis Richardson and others are right.
 
MITSOPOULOS: Thank you for your question, Steven. Lots of different topics that people want to raise with you. I want to try and get to as many issues as I can. Yvonne, hello, what is your question?
 
YVONNE, CALLER: Hi, my question is - we've heard where you stand on workforce in aged care. But I want to know where you stand on increasing transparency of funding.
 
ALBANESE: Thanks very much. Look, this is a major issue. There was some increased funding in the last Budget after the Royal Commission handed down its quite damning report into the state of aged care. The interim report, of course, was called neglect. It found that half of aged care residents are literally starving. They're not getting the nutrition that they need. It also found a lack of transparency, a number of private operators acting in an unscrupulous way, reaping massive profits, while, at the same time, people not getting the care that they need and that they deserve, let alone the respect that they certainly need having contributed to this country for their whole life. So, we think that any additional funding should be tied to outcomes, including proper food, looking after people. We also think that the workforce issues need to be addressed.
 
MITSOPOULOS: They want to be paid more.
 
ALBANESE: They want to be paid more. And they should be paid more. It is outrageous.
 
MITSOPOULOS: So, how do you make that happen?
 
ALBANESE: You make that happen through the Fair Work Commission. You make a positive submission from the national Government. That is underway now. That won't be concluded before the Federal election. If I'm elected Prime Minister, there will be a Federal Government submission to the Fair Work Commission saying that we support paying aged care workers more. Currently, they are paid a number of them, about $22 an hour. Now, you can get more stacking shelves in some places than that. $22 an hour for a job that's physically demanding, that is emotionally stressful, and in some cases, traumatic. These are people who are heroes. During the pandemic, they've gone in, they've looked after elderly Australians who are vulnerable. And the stories that I've heard about aged care workers showering one of the aged care residents and the buzzers are going off and they've got to make a decision about which buzzer they go to, to help three residents who need help at the same time, and they simply can't do it. That sort of pressure is leading a whole lot of people to leave the workforce. And it is a fact that if you look at the areas where people are underpaid at the moment, they're largely feminised industries. Aged care, child care, cleaners. They're areas where, during the pandemic, we said that we valued them. But we've got to pay them more. And it's as simple as that.
 
MITSOPOULOS: Anthony Albanese is the voice you are listening to today, the Labor Leader. 1300 222 720 if you've got a question. On the text, Fernando says, 'What's the policy going to be with regard to unsecure work?' So, for those who are on contract employment, there are no paid holidays, or you're underpaid. How are you going to deal with that issue?
 
ALBANESE: We're going to deal with that by having same job, same pay. I have indeed got a bill before the Parliament at the moment, a Private Member's Bill. We have, in some sectors, such as some of the mining sector, we can have two people working side by side, one of them working for a labour hire company, with no sick leave, no entitlements, essentially, and lower wages, sometimes to the tune of thousands of dollars less, but doing exactly the same job. And we need to address that by having same job, same pay legislation. The other thing we need to do is to enforce the idea of minimum wages. We know that some companies have done that. I can't give an ad on the ABC, but there's one of the big food delivery companies that has come to an agreement to pay their deliverers properly. And the Government said it paying people the minimum wage is too difficult. No, it's not. We need to make sure that happens. Because we know there are occupational health and safety risks as well. We've seen bike riders die on the road because they're trying to get from A to B quicker than it's humanly possible to do so, because of the pressure that's on them. And surely, the gig economy has brought great advantages. We all think it's convenient to jump in a car, or to get food delivery, or Airtasker, all of these tasks that can be done. But at the same time, we shouldn't have people exploited. And we need to address that.
 
MITSOPOULOS: A couple of quick ones off the text. Petrol has hit two dollars a litre here. That's still going up. Some people on the text are wondering if there's merit in maybe cutting the fuel excise temporarily to ease some of that pain at the bowser.
 
ALBANESE: Well, this Government's presided over, this has got nothing to do with Russia and Ukraine, it was hitting $2 a litre before then. And this Government's presided over, this term, the closure of two of the oil refineries in Australia. And when it came to fuel reserves, we were told the fuel reserves are in the Gulf of Mexico. We need to address those issues of fuel security. That needs to be an absolute priority. And the closure, of course, of the refinery here in the West was a real blow to Western Australia, but also a blow to the national economy. And this Government have just been complacent about these issues.
 
MITSOPOULOS: Let's go to Chris. Good morning, Chris.
 
CHRIS, CALLER: Hello. Congratulations, Albo. You've got more courage than the other bloke. So, I have to commend you for coming on and facing some fairly tough questions. Mine is on subsidies to oil and gas. It's ten billion a year. And oil and gas and their producers are directly contributing to climate change. And also, the donations that the ALP accept from oil and gas, it's about $400,000 from the figures I've seen. Any plans to change those?
 
ALBANESE: Look, you have to recognise, as well, that those industries are contributing massively in terms of the tax system. If you look at the tax system, the revenues from that go into schools and hospitals, and to keep the Australian economy going.
 
MITSOPOULOS: But Chris is asking about donations. It is a pretty simple question. Would you stop accepting donations? Yes or no?
 
ALBANESE: Well, we have transparency when it comes to donations from corporations. We get a very small amount compared with the current Government. And during the election campaign that we're about to have, I'll give you the big tip, we will be outspent about 2-1 by the LNP. And we'll be outspent by Clive Palmer, as you will have seen, by about 10-1 with the way that it's going with the money that's being spent out there.
 
MITSOPOULOS: So, that is a no?
 
ALBANESE: The organisational wing looks after those issues. We declare every donation above $1,000. What is important is transparency in terms of donations. And we determine our policy, as we did on climate change, out there for all to see. And you can't engage with the Labor Party on the basis of donations. We're very clear about that.
 
MITSOPOULOS: Just a couple of minutes before the news at nine o'clock. Just quickly, we've only got a minute or so left, Mehdi Ali is an Iranian refugee who has been in an Australian immigration detention centre for nine years. He's been released now and heading to the United States. And his message was, 'What about all those other people in immigration detention centres who have been in there for 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 years?' Will you release them?
 
ALBANESE: Refugees should not be in indefinite detention. And that's what's occurred. And one of the first visits I made as Labor Leader was to Biloela. And I know that family are here in Perth. And you can be strong on borders without being weak on humanity. And the indefinite detention what we have said for a number of years now is that the deal that was offered by New Zealand that was on the table should have been accepted. If that had occurred. We wouldn't have that situation at a great cost to the Australian taxpayers. But importantly, a great human cost as well.
 
MITSOPOULOS: So, are you going to try and get them out?
 
ALBANESE: Well, we believe that people shouldn't be in indefinite detention. That's very clear. We've said that consistently. And it is costly. And there is no place in Australia for being cruel, which indefinite detention for a period of nine years is just not on.
 
MITSOPOULOS: We have about 20 seconds left. Quick yes or no, will you leave super alone? Lots of people are asking on the texts.
 
ALBANESE: We will lift it up to 12 per cent. The question on super for this Government is - will they try to stop the increase like they did during this term?
 
MITSOPOULOS: We'll leave it there. Appreciate your time, Anthony Albanese.
 
ALBANESE: Thanks very much.
 
ENDS