SUBJECTS: Daniel Andrews; workplace culture in Parliament House; historic rape allegation against a Cabinet Minister; Federal Government’s tourism package; regional tourism; JobKeeper; skill shortages in Australia; international borders; Aussies stranded overseas; international students; aviation and tourism sectors impacted by COVID-19; climate change; net zero by 2050; Federal Election. 

VIRGINIA TRIOLI, HOST: Good morning and welcome back to Melbourne. 

ANTHONY ALBANESE, LEADER OF THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY: Good morning, Virginia. 

TRIOLI: Have you spoken to Daniel Andrews or his family since you've been here? 

ALBANESE: No. But I spoke with Tim Pallas last night, the Treasurer. And everyone's concerned, I think, for Daniel's health. This, of course, isn't a political issue. This is a health issue. And we wish Daniel and Cath and the family all the best. I did text Daniel but obviously his priority at the moment isn’t communication, it's just getting well. 

TRIOLI: It's probably a lot more serious than we first thought, this injury. 

ALBANESE: Well, it certainly isn't just a little slip that happened. Clearly, you have to be very careful with anything to do with the back or spine. I myself was in the full spinal protection mode in January, I had a head-on crash. And they were very careful at the hospital, very cautious at the hospital that I was at, Prince Alfred, and I have no doubt that Daniel is getting the best of health care. 

TRIOLI: And how's your health now? Are you fully recovered? 

ALBANESE: I'm pretty good. I was just incredibly lucky. The truth is my car was a complete write-off. And if the car had have hit one foot or a metre either way, really, then I probably wouldn't be here talking to you right now according to the paramedics who rescued me and got me out of the car. 

TRIOLI: Let's get to the hard politics of all of that, though, do you have any concerns about leadership stability here in Victoria in the absence of Daniel Andrews, who is known to be a very centralised and very strong individual leader? Are you worried about that? 

ALBANESE: Not at all. Daniel will return as Premier. And he's doing a terrific job. He's been a friend of mine for a very long while. We shared a place in Canberra when he was a staffer a long time ago when I was first elected. And I think he has shown Victorians great leadership. He's been prepared to make tough decisions. And I look forward to him not just returning but contesting and being elected for another term. 

TRIOLI: Anthony Albanese with you this morning and we'll take your calls, 1300 222 774. We're on YouTube this morning, not Facebook. Our sometimes-unfriendly partner in life, Facebook, we're not with them, we are with YouTube if you're trying to find us on Facebook. So go there instead. I want to talk just first of all about the toxic workplace that is Parliament House and of course following those allegations that have been made that are strenuously denied by the Attorney-General, Christian Porter. Did you know Julia Gillard’s and Kevin Rudd’s staffer Anna Jabour? 

ALBANESE: No, I didn't. 

TRIOLI: This week she wrote this about the Christian Porter allegations she said, ‘The Opposition immediately called for an inquiry into the toxic workplace culture that engulfs Parliament, which Scott Morrison subsequently ordered. But Labor needs to look in its own house too, because I was a Labor advisor. One of the people I used to look up to most who turned out to be one of the most toxic figures is currently a senior Labor figure. A slew of individuals behind the scenes, as consultants in state governments, who were among the worst offenders, are still lurking there’. And she goes on to detail the behaviour she saw by Labor staffers and others. What inquiry do you think you need to launch into your own culture? 

ALBANESE: We have had it. We've had an extensive process, led by Sharon Claydon, the Chair of our Caucus, but across the Party. And the National Executive just a couple of weeks ago adopted four policy documents, including a Code of Conduct, including a sexual harassment policy, including a bullying policy, including a complaint process. And that was as a result of extensive consultation across the Party. Importantly, it's not just about the Parliament. I note that Ms Jabour’s comments spoke about consultants. 

TRIOLI: And state governments as well. 

ALBANESE: It applies across the board. So it's not just in Parliament, at Party meetings, at Party functions. Anything to do with the Labor Party, this process will apply. It's gone out to the Party membership. 

TRIOLI: It's interesting that being aware of that, clearly, Anna Jabour doesn't see that as satisfactory. She's written this piece just yesterday. This is just two days old, I think. Even after the process that you've gone through is not satisfying to her, which is interesting, isn't it? 

ALBANESE: We all need to do better, Virginia. I'm sure that there are issues in organisations across the board. And I certainly have never said that the ALP is immune from it. I'm sure the ABC isn’t either, frankly. Gender politics needs to be addressed. And we need to make sure that women are safe wherever they work and wherever they are. 

TRIOLI: Do you leave the Christian Porter allegations, which are strenuously denied, do you leave them where they are for now? Is that the end of what Labor is going to push for? 

ALBANESE: Well, I think the idea that we can just unsee, unhear what the claims have been from the woman who tragically lost her life are just not realistic, that he can just return as Attorney-General. And that's why the fact that you've just asked me a question and every interview I do, I get a question about it. 

TRIOLI: It's a live issue. 

ALBANESE: It certainly is. And it requires some resolution. I don't argue that these issues are easy. But there does need to be, in my view, as the family has requested, some form of examination, some inquiry at arm's length from the Government. I was disturbed that both the Prime Minister and Christian Porter said that they hadn't actually read the documentation. 

TRIOLI: Do you believe them? 

ALBANESE: Well, it's not up to me. I find it astonishing. I find it very difficult to understand how, if a document like that was forwarded to the Prime Minister and he had a discussion with Christian Porter, that he could just say, ‘Well, I believe his words, but I haven't bothered to read the words that was forwarded to me’ that came indirectly, of course, from the woman. 

TRIOLI: So if anything comes like what's been written here by Anna Jabour or others about Labor culture, notwithstanding the fact that you say the inquiry you've had is enough, you'd be prepared to call another one? 

ALBANESE: I’ll be very clear, Virginia. I don't say it's enough. I think we need to continue to work each and every day on these issues. You don't say patriarchy is gone. There are power structures in society. And when we look at many of the forms of sexual abuse, they are about power and about the exercise that men in power have. And that's why we need to continue to work on it. But all I'm saying is, that was an update from the 2018 policy that Labor adopted. And we'll continue to work on it. 

TRIOLI: I know you want to talk this morning about the $1.2 billion that's been promised to cut the cost of flights and that many are seeing is something like an aviation bailout. But we've got an interesting question from Nino in Patterson Lakes. Nino, good morning.

NINO, CALLER: Good morning. 

ALBANESE: Good morning, Nino. 

NINO: Good morning. Look, we're a small family business here in hospitality. And obviously, we've been through some challenging times in Victoria with the pandemic and lockdown. And now we're trying to rebuild our business and we are just struggling to get people to apply for work. 

TRIOLI: What sort of business do you have, Nino? 

NINO: We have an Italian family restaurant. And when I say family, it's myself, my wife and three children. We've been established for over three years. 

TRIOLI: And you lost all your staff, of course, during the pandemic? 

NINO: No, I lost some because we simply just couldn't keep them all. We kept the majority of ourselves all going by turning ourselves into a takeaway machine. 

ALBANESE: Did you receive JobKeeper? 

NINO: Yes. We were accepted into the program which enabled me to keep all my kitchen staff and a couple out the front and those people. We were the couriers ourselves that were coming to you. 

TRIOLI: So what's the challenge now, Nino? 

NINO: Well, I’ve got to rehire a waitstaff and I’ve got to hire a chef, for example. And I’ve placed several paid ads, not free ads locally, in all the key areas, and we’re just not getting any response. And that’s really troubling because, as you can appreciate, so many people can only produce and give so much time. 

TRIOLI: Let’s get a response from the Leader of the Opposition. 

ALBANESE: One of the things that has happened through the pandemic is, I think, is that it’s identified some of the weaknesses in our economy. And some of that is about skills shortages. The truth is we have a massive shortage of chefs. I live in a part of Sydney that’s the equivalent, I guess, of Carlton and areas that are very Italian-influenced, like Leichhardt and Haberfield, they all have relied upon importation of temporary labour, skilled labour from overseas in terms of chefs. And there’s a massive shortage across the board, so I’m not surprised by what you say there because that has happened everywhere. 

TRIOLI: So what’s the answer? 

ALBANESE: Well, there's no short-term solution. But the solution is to make sure that we train people. We identify where the jobs will be, and we train Australians for them. Temporary skill migration can continue to have a role. But in some areas, chefs is a good example of a job where we're being very poor. 

TRIOLI: But I think, Nino, you're saying that Australians just don't want to do it. 

NINO: The reality is, guys, absolutely. And we only get the ones that do apply or do come for a trial are never Australian. We've even put ads in the (inaudible) school, which I am about to revisit. I'm working with job agencies that are trying to re-skill people that have probably stopped doing what they were doing for a period of time and now want to do it again. We're working with these agencies to help people and we're involved in all the job initiatives. And we actually find that what happens is once we get to the point of you coming for the actual job, you don't come. 

TRIOLI: Now we're hearing this again and again, Anthony Albanese, I have to say. And this is a reality. How would you fix that? I mean, I don't know how you turn around the desire of Australian workers to do jobs that they're just not prepared to do. 

ALBANESE: Look, there's no magic solution. But I do think that there are people, if there are opportunities given to them, to get skilled jobs, and they are well-paid jobs, that is thing about being a chef. It's a good job, because you can be in demand, you can travel with it, as many of the people do when they come and work here. 

TRIOLI: But Australians tend to regard waitstaff jobs as either well-paid enough or professional enough for them to do and we hear this on this program again, and again, the staff went home, and they can't get locals to do it. 

ALBANESE: I worked as young person at a place called Pancakes on the Rocks. 

TRIOLI: But would you agree to do it at as a 25 or 35-year-old Australian? 

ALBANESE: Well, I didn't do that. I went to work for a bank once I graduated with an economics degree. 

TRIOLI: That's the point. Of course, but we don't see those jobs as professional callings that we're prepared to do. 

ALBANESE: But we should. And one of the things that we're going to create, the first commitment I made as Labor Leader was to create a body called Jobs and Skills Australia. That will really work with the private sector to identify where the economy's going, what the jobs of the future will be, how we give people the skills to do it. In some cases, in some professions, we simply do need to look at the remuneration and pay people more in some tasks as well. 

TRIOLI: What do you think about the plan that the Federal Government has announced about the cut priced flights, $1.2 billion in order to get Australians moving to the regions? You've described it as just an opportunity for the Government to spend money in seats that matter to them. 

ALBANESE: Well, if you look at the map, clearly, they've looked at the electoral map. So that, for example, you can fly into northern Tasmania, where there happened to be two marginal Liberal held seats, but not southern Tasmania. You can fly into central Australia, but not to Darwin. I think it's a very cynical exercise from a Government that always looks at the politics of every issue. And the problem here is it's a temporary aviation support program. Now I was down the Surf Coast yesterday at Torquay. We did a roundtable there with tourism operators. And they were expressing concern that they will actually go backwards. So, for example, the travel agents, because airfares have to be booked directly with the airlines, they get cut out of the process. 

TRIOLI: What's the solution? 

ALBANESE: I think a comprehensive plan to support the tourism industry was what was required, not just a plan for selective cut priced airfares to some destinations. Certainly for Melbourne, which is a major tourism destination, there's an incentive here to leave Melbourne, there's no incentive for anyone to come to Melbourne. And I know talking with Tim Pallas last night, he was very concerned about the package. And I'm not surprised. 

TRIOLI: The airline industry, however, has been, and for some time continues to be, on its knees. Something needed to be done. Was it simply a matter of the way it was described? Did it need to be dispatched more clearly as an airline industry support package or rescue package? 

ALBANESE: It certainly isn't a tourism package. I think that some elements of it are positive. The support for international airlines, for example, is very positive. But the Government has something that, a bit of a character trait, they wait and wait and wait. 8,500 jobs have been lost from Qantas. Virgin, of course, collapsed and had to be rescued under new owners. And the Government was very slow in putting something forward. And this isn't also a long-term aviation strategy. So in the short-term, it will provide some additional income. And that's not a bad thing. But it won't do what's necessary and what the tourism sector were asking for. 

TRIOLI: Anthony Albanese is with you this morning. And we're taking your calls. Just before we go to Praveen who is calling from Glenroy, the EU is going to impose tariffs on products from countries without a carbon price, green industry products such as wind turbines and solar panels. So it looks like the time actually has now come. Will Labor reconsider and reintroduce a carbon price? 

ALBANESE: Well, you don't need a carbon price when renewables are the cheapest form of new energy. 

TRIOLI: You'll need a carbon price in order to escape this tariff. 

ALBANESE: No, that's not right. Australia's problem is that we don't have an energy policy and we don't have a climate change policy. We're one of the few countries, all of our trading partners have all adopted net zero by 2050 as has every state and territory government, as has a whole range of organisations from the Business Council of Australia to the NFF. The Morrison Government are stubbornly refusing to do so. So in terms of the relationship with the EU, the relationship with the Biden administration, Australia is a pariah when it comes to climate. 

TRIOLI: That one policy change and one that you actually successfully embraced and introduced for a period of time, that actually then forms your future energy policy, that one simple change, which as we can see around the world, is an idea whose time has come. Australia would not be an outlier in that. Would you really not reconsider it? 

ALBANESE: Well, we would have net zero by 2050. And we'll have a range of policies to make sure that we get there. At the moment, what we don't have is an energy policy. We've had 22 thought bubbles, but we haven't had a framework to drive through the change. Now, what worked? Well, I've got to say, in 2010, it was the policy because renewables weren't the cheapest form of new energy. What we're seeing at the moment is that there won't be another coal-fired power station built in Australia. 

TRIOLI: But there will still be carbon intensive industries that need to be dealt with. 

ALBANESE: That's right. And one way that you can deal with that is by ensuring that you promote renewables. One way that we can drive manufacturing, for example, is being driven through the renewable sector. I was in Perth just last week at the nickel refinery that's run by BHP. It is now going to be powered over the next couple of years 50 per cent by renewables, but they're looking towards moving to zero by 2030. That's what's happening. It will be powered by solar. It's able to happen because of new technology. But things are happening in spite of the Federal Government, not because of it. 

TRIOLI: Let's hear from Praveen from Glenroy. Good morning, Praveen. 

PRAVEEN, CALLER: Good morning, Virginia. Thank you for taking my call. 

TRIOLI: My pleasure. 

PRAVEEN: I want to raise this issue about the international education sector, which is one of the only top 10 industries or sectors which hasn't got any help or support from the Federal Government, and there's no clear direction. And apart from Peter Khalil and Julian Hill, I haven't seen many of the Labor frontbenchers holding the Federal Government to account. 

TRIOLI: So what would your question be to Mr Albanese? 

PRAVEEN: What's Labor's position on it? Because the industry is crying out for help and there's no timeline or no proposal of when the international students are coming back. 

TRIOLI: What would your plan be? 

ALBANESE: Look, it is our most important service industry. And the problem here is that Scott Morrison promised that Australians would be home by Christmas. And there are still 40,000 stranded overseas. We should have fixed that problem last year. And then we should have been in a position to bring in international students now. 

TRIOLI: So it's an order issue? Labor believes that until you get Australians home who want to come home, you can't start to bring in the international students? 

ALBANESE: Well, I think it's very difficult to argue that an Australian who is stranded overseas shouldn't get a seat on a plane before someone who's not an Australian citizen. 

TRIOLI: Can't you do both at the same time in some way? 

ALBANESE: Well, what you can do is to ensure that you are doing both. But there is an order. Bringing Australians home would have been my first priority. But we should have fixed this problem. We had Howard Springs, for example, the facility in the Northern Territory has now doubled to 2,000. We have been saying that that measure should happen since June last year. We've been talking about this consistently. And I know that educational institutions are really struggling. The other thing that's a problem is we abandoned those students who are here. I've got a food bank in my electorate, run by Reverend Bill Crews. And this is the first time that you've had students from overseas queuing up, essentially relying upon charity to get a meal. A lot of these students aren't wealthy, from places like Nepal and other countries. They have come here for an opportunity and we've abandoned them. And that is really damaging our reputation. 

TRIOLI: So the policy or the answer to Praveen's question is that overseas students would have to wait until all Australians were brought back here. That's the answer? That's not much of an economic policy to get this, as you acknowledged, crucial part of the economy. 

ALBANESE: We would have brought them home last year, Australians. And we would have had international students coming in this year in order to start their courses in 2021. That should have happened. And it should have been an absolute priority. And even now, you have plans or proposals like the use of Wellcamp near Toowoomba, like the use of Avalon Airport, that have been made available, and you don't have any Federal Government leadership on those issues. 

TRIOLI: We're getting a lot of texts this morning, Mr Albanese, about whether you are the person to lead Labor to the next election. That question still persists, doesn't it? And I guess recent Newspoll figures, they don't make answering that question any easier, do they? 

ALBANESE: They do, actually, Virginia. 

TRIOLI: How so? 

ALBANESE: Watch WA tomorrow night and you'll see what a COVID bounce looks like for a government. 

TRIOLI: Okay. Well, that's Western Australia, they are in a very different position to you. 

ALBANESE: In none of the published polls are we behind. Not in Newspoll, not in Morgan, not in Essential. In two of the three, we are ahead. 

TRIOLI: In terms of your personal rating, you're well behind Scott Morrison. 

ALBANESE: Every leader has received a positive bounce in the country. But Scott Morrison is the least popular leader in the country. Daniel Andrews, Gladys Berejiklian, in spite of all the scandals in New South Wales, they all have a higher approval rating. And you have people like Mark McGowan and the Tasmanian Premier with a nine in front of their approval rating. 

TRIOLI: Well, that's sounding like Labor state leaders, even ones who might even be in hospital, might stand a better chance than the Federal Labor Leader for the next election? 

ALBANESE: No, Virginia, what it says is that people have had a flight to certainty, which is what happens during a crisis. Approval ratings for leaders go up. That's what's happened. What hasn't happened, though, is that has not translated into votes. People are uncertain about Scott Morrison. They are willing him to succeed, but the fact is that our primary vote is up, our two-party-preferred vote is up. And we're getting on with the job of presenting an alternative. And if the election was held today, we would be competitive at least. As I said, the worst result is us on 50 per cent. 

TRIOLI: Anthony Albanese, I'm really glad you could come to Melbourne and spend some time with us in the studio. 

ALBANESE: It is good to be in the studio. 

TRIOLI: It's nice to have you here. Many more calls that we could get to, but we'll try and reflect some of those and hundreds of texts as well during our program this morning. Thanks so much. 

ALBANESE: Thanks very much. All the best. 

TRIOLI: Anthony Albanese there, the Federal Labor Leader. 

ENDS