SUBJECTS: Labor plans; Full employment summit; Clive Palmer and One Nation preferencing the Liberal Party; Labor’s Plan for a Better Future; Liberals encouraging Australians not to vote early; Wages going backwards under Scott Morrison; Hospitals; First Nations Constitutional recognition; Lifelong friends; Scott Morrison’s allergy to the ABC.
 
PATRICIA KARVELAS, HOST: Labor remains well ahead in all the published opinion polls, suggesting a comfortable win on Saturday week. But the polling numbers disguise the degree of difficulty facing Anthony Albanese at the election, he still needs to find at least seven seats to become only the fourth Labor leader to win office from opposition since the Second World War. The Labor leader Anthony Albanese joins us now. Anthony Albanese, welcome to Breakfast. Good morning, Patricia. Paul Keating famously said when you change the government, you change the country. How will Australia change if Labor is elected next week?

ANTHONY ALBANESE, LEADER OF THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY: Well, I understand the power of government to change people's lives for the better. We have growing inequality, we have wages that are going backwards in real terms, but the cost of everything's going up. We need to address cost of living challenges. But we also need to address the challenges and opportunities that are there from climate change. This is an opportunity for Australia to grow new industries, to become a renewable energy superpower to seize the moment, we can't afford three more years of the same. I want to do the job. I want to accept this responsibility, turn up each and every day.

KARVELAS: Back in 2007, the very first thing Kevin Rudd did after being elected was to sign the Kyoto climate change protocol. If you are elected, what will be your first totemic act to demonstrate a new government and a new country?

ALBANESE: Well, the first act is one that has really been beyond my control, which is to head straight to the Quad Leaders meeting in Tokyo that’ll take place on the 24th. So meeting with President Biden, Prime Minister Kishida and Narendra Modi, our three great allies, will be really important and there, I really look forward to discussing with Joe Biden, in particular, the United States, our most important ally, issues like climate, but also in our region, Japan and India are so important to us. We will then put in place the structures that you need to drive through that change. So structures like our measures to deal with reducing emissions, our National Reconstruction Fund, our Anti-Corruption Commission, the Respect@Work report is so important as well, I want to really raise the issues of greater gender equality in this country, I see that as a major priority for us.

KARVELAS: There's always a focus on a new government's first 100 days, what would you want to achieve by that first key milestone?

ALBANESE: To put those structures in place, I'll also convene a full employment summit bringing unions and employers and civil society together to talk about how we get more secure work to talk about how we lift wages, by lifting productivity. The only way that you can lift wages and support business at the same time, without putting inflationary pressure on, is to lift productivity. And I want to bring people together, I think that we've had a decade of division, a decade of a prime minister who's always looking for the wedge, what we need to do is to actually work out what our common interests are. And I'm convinced that we can do that and to really unite the country going forward so that we emerge from the pandemic even stronger, not be satisfied with going back to where we were because the vulnerabilities in our economy had been exposed by this pandemic. We need to make more things here. We need more secure work.

KARVELAS: If you're just tuning in the Labor leader Anthony Albanese is my guest here on Radio National Breakfast. Anthony Albanese, the election could be decided in a number of marginal metropolitan seats where people suffered through lengthy COVID lockdowns. Clive Palmer's UAP, which is campaigning under the freedom banner, will preference the Liberals ahead of Labor in at least three crucial seats you simply must win: Chisholm, Reid and Bass. How much harder will this make it for Labor now that this decision has been made?

ALBANESE: Well, what we know from the how-to-votes is overwhelmingly Clive Palmer's preferences seem to be going straight to the Liberal Party in some of those key seats, as do One Nation’s. But people's vote is powerful. They can change the country for the better, they can help deliver a better future if they vote for Labor in this election. I'm the only person running for prime minister who's seeking to govern in their own right at this election. And we have a plan for cheaper childcare—

KARVELAS: I know all of that, but are you worried about the preferences, I don't mean to be rude, the preference flows in these key seats. I mean, when you heard that news yesterday, was that a blow to you?

ALBANESE: It wasn't a great shock. I've got to say, Patricia, in spite of the declarations that have been made, that no preference deals were being done. It's very clear that there have been some arrangements put in place between those, those minor parties and the Liberal Party. But we weren't, we're not completely shocked by that. But what we will do is continue to seek out people's first preference at this election, including in those key seats, but there are seats right around the country, people's vote, every individual's vote is powerful. And one of the things I find quite surprising, Patricia, is that people are voting in record numbers. Yesterday there was huge queues at the polling booths, I encourage people to get out there and vote, exercise their democratic rights, it appears that kind of message to Liberal candidates was to discourage people from voting when—

KARVELAS: Well you're meant to have a reason, it is meant to be an event on polling day, right?

ALBANESE: It's changed Patricia, it changed some time ago. A lot of people, record numbers, are putting in postal votes, that's not surprising, given the experience of COVID that the country has had, and record numbers will vote early in this election.

KARVELAS: Okay, I've got a few really key questions. The key election issue is the cost of living, the ACTU has upped its minimum wage claim to a 5.5 per cent rise, do you support that higher level given inflation is running at over 5 per cent?

ALBANESE: Well, one of the things I do support is people not going backwards, Patricia, people are doing it really tough—

KARVELAS: I know, but it's a specific question about the ACTU claim, it's upped its minimum wage claim. Do you support that 5.5 per cent?

ALBANESE: Well, look, it will be up to the Fair Work Commission to determine, but quite clearly the Fair Work Commission should bear in mind how tough people are doing it. And those people who are on minimum rates of pay can't afford to go backwards.

KARVELAS: Okay, so you do support the 5.5 per cent?

ALBANESE: No, people, the Fair Work Commission makes its own decisions, but people can't afford to go backwards. The minimum wage—

KARVELAS: You say, I have to interrupt you just to make this point, if I can, you say that actually, the Government is instrumental in putting its submission forward. You've criticised the Morrison Government for not taking that activism, to not get involved. And yet you say it is up to them. So do you support the 5.5 per cent?

ALBANESE: Now, the 5.5 is higher, of course than the inflation rate. What I say is that people can't afford to go backwards, the current minimum wage is just $20.33. So people can't afford to go backwards.

KARVELAS: So you think that's too ambitious, this new ACTU claim?

ALBANESE: I expect the ACTU to put in claims on behalf of their members, and on behalf of, of working people. That's not surprising, Patricia, that that they have done that and—

KARVELAS: So you think it needs to be more modest and just keep up with inflation?

ALBANESE: No, I've said that people, the Fair Work Commission, in my view, should not allow people to go backwards, people are really struggling out there. And the idea that people's minimum wage can't keep up with the cost of living in terms of inflation, is in my view, something that the Fair Work Commission should bear in mind.

KARVELAS: The states want Canberra to permanently lift the Commonwealth funding guarantee to the 50/50 split that was agreed to during the pandemic at a price tag of about $5 billion a year. Given what's at stake and the crisis that we're seeing across the country in hospitals, why don't you agree with that?

ALBANESE: Patricia, if we are successful on the 21st of May we will inherit a trillion dollars of debt from a government that doubled the debt before the pandemic and doesn't have much to show for it. We understand that the health system is, is, really struggling because of the impact of COVID. What I have said is that we will sit down constructively with State premiers and chief ministers. I'll engage with them on a constructive basis. We, we will, of course, do that after the election if we're successful, but we are going to inherit, if we're successful, a trillion dollars of debt, so we're being at this election fiscally responsible—

KARVELAS: Well, you've backed the tax cuts. You've backed in a lot of government—

ALBANESE: It hasn’t been legislated. 

KARVELAS: Okay, but other announcements, there's a crisis in hospitals. Isn't this a priority?

ALBANESE: Of course, health funding is a priority. And we have made a number of health funding announcements during this campaign and we'll make a number more. One of the things about our Urgent Care Clinics is about taking pressure off emergency departments in hospitals.

KARVELAS: I want to talk to you about something pretty important for our country. You have prioritised a referendum on constitutional recognition of First Australians and enshrining an Indigenous Voice to Parliament. How soon could that vote be held with a reasonable expectation of success?

ALBANESE: Well, I want that to happen in the first term, Patricia, it is certainly my objective. I will sit down with First Nations people after the election, about a timetable, sit down with the Coalition of Peaks and others who've been involved in the Uluru Statement from the Heart. This is a very generous offer of First Nations people, they had their hand out in friendship. It's a generous statement. It's a wonderful statement. And the idea that that we don't recognise that, that, Australian history didn't begin in, when the First Fleet arrived, that we should be proud of our 65,000 years, at least, of having the oldest continuous civilisation on the planet, that should be recognised in our Constitution. Now, we do want, obviously, for it to be successful. And just as I offered, I offered the Prime Minister in the first meeting that we had after I became Labor leader, I said, this should be a priority, we should get this done, I would expect that if we're successful, I'll reach out across the Parliament to ensure that there's as much support, it needs to be, of course, on a bipartisan basis for this change.

KARVELAS: And how invested will you be personally, in doing this, as the prime minister. Will you go to Garma, for instance, to meet Indigenous leaders to progress this, this year, after – if – you are successful on May 21?

ALBANESE: I certainly will, I have been to Garma on a number of occasions before, I've been three times before, including as, as the Labor leader. And, and, it is a remarkable event, it's a great honour to go to Garma. And what's disappointing here is that I went in 2019, and the Minister Ken Wyatt from his speech clearly gave an indication that there was going to be action on, on constitutional change. And then days away, just walked away from it. And nothing, nothing, enough, not enough has happened during this term. It's very clear that that is a wasted opportunity. I remain absolutely committed to this, absolutely invested in this. Because just like the Apology to the Stolen Generations given by Kevin Rudd, when it happens, people will wonder why hasn't it happened before, because we'll all be enriched by it. This is about First Nations people, but it's also about how Australia sees ourselves. It will be a matter of national pride when we recognise First Nations people in our Constitution.

KARVELAS: I know we're keeping you but I've just got a last couple of questions as I know that you would expect, Anthony Albanese, of me. The Prime Minister has lashed you as a small and weak leader. He says you haven't been able to hack the campaign, people are starting to think is this guy really up to it. This is clearly a reference to your stumbles, the unemployment rate and the NDIS policy. Why, is there a lack of not being briefed? What is the sense that he's trying to paint about you?

ALBANESE: This is just more abuse because he's got nothing else, Patricia, this guy had no plan for this term, says that he wants to be prime minister but doesn't want to leave a legacy. I don't know why you would go into politics if you don't want to leave a legacy. I spoke about my legacy in my first term, first speech to Parliament. That's what people do and then they then they work on it. My first speech was about nation building and infrastructure. It's about greater equality. It was about giving recognition for, for, who people are in that speech. This, this Prime Minister has no plans for the future. He struggles with the present. I want to change people's lives for the better. I want to talk about cheaper childcare. I want to talk about women's equality. I want to talk about First Nations recognition in our Constitution with an enshrined Voice to Parliament. I want to build new industries through the National Reconstruction Fund. I want to make more things here, I want to act on climate change. I want a National Anti-Corruption Commission to clean up politics. My opponent, my opponent has nothing except fear campaigns and personal abuse.

KARVELAS: Anthony Albanese, the Prime Minister's sounding board is his wife Jenny. He often refers to her, he takes, he refers to Jenny giving him advice. Who do you talk to, who is in your ear?

ALBANESE: I talk, I talk to lots of people, Patricia. One of the benefits of, of having a long time in politics and being the sort of person that I am, is that I talk to not just my close parliamentary colleagues, I talk to people in business. I talk to people in unions. I talk to people I grew up with, they're in Camperdown. There's a few people, Sheree and Scott, who might be listening now, old Camperdown mates I grew up with, who I go to watch Newtown play in the second division, the equivalent of the VFL I guess, at Henson Park, and, and we chat about things, it keeps, it keeps you grounded. And I make sure that I have lifelong friends, including people I went to school with, who I talk with about what's going on, in, in Australia, because it is very easy if you're a parliamentarian, you know, travelling around the country – I was in three States yesterday – it is very easy to become detached. I make sure that I'm grounded each and every day. 

KARVELAS: Before I let you go, can you commit to another interview with Radio National Breakfast before you go to the polling booths? We all go to the polling booths on May 21.

ALBANESE: Good try Patricia. But I'll do what I can. And I always am keen to talk with you, PK, and I say this too, the Prime Minister seems to have an allergy with the ABC. I did Q&A last week. I'm doing you now, I did Virginia Trioli last week. I've done a range of ABC programs. I'll be doing Insiders. I'll be doing the National Press Club next week broadcast on the ABC, the Prime Minister organised the debates with, with—

KARVELAS: Why didn’t you, quite a few people have said to me, why didn't Anthony Albanese insist it be with the ABC, insist, put your foot down? I mean, you're the other one running for prime minister.

ALBANESE: Because this Prime Minister refused to have a debate on the ABC. I think that says it all. I'd said that I was prepared to debate the Prime Minister in on any network. It's ended up being Sky, Nine and Seven, I can assure you of this, Patricia, if I am elected prime minister, if I have that great honour and privilege, there'll be a debate on the ABC next time around. We'll have increased ABC funding and I'll recognise the national broadcaster for the national asset that it is.

KARVELAS: Well I'll be hassling you to speak to you one more time. Thank you so much for your time this morning. 

ALBANESE: Thanks PK.

KARVELAS: Labor leader Anthony Albanese there and Breakfast, just to be super clear, has been seeking an interview with Prime Minister Scott Morrison in fact, several times a day, personally, but also my team, but I'm always trying to speak to the Prime Minister. He continues to be unavailable. We will continue to make the requests and if anyone in his office or himself is listening right now, we would love to speak to the Prime Minister.

ENDS