SUBJECTS: Manufacturing; importance of manufacturing in regional Australia; seat of Dawson; coal; industrial relations; casualisation of the workforce; regional economic development.

MEECHAM PHILPOTT, HOST: So what are you doing in Mackay?

ANTHONY ALBANESE, LEADER OF THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY: Well, I've been here announcing Shane Hamilton as our Labor candidate for Dawson. We know he had a crack, of course, in the state campaign. He finished first, he topped the poll, but he didn't quite get there. So we're using that momentum to run him for Dawson. We know George Christensen has decided not to contest. 

PHILPOTT: Big seat, Dawson, as it turns out.

ALBANESE: It is a big seat. But it's one that's been held by Labor, of course, in the past. And we're hoping it can be held again.

PHILPOTT: So does it all come down to coal?

ALBANESE: I think there's a whole range of issues. Coal will obviously be an important issue. And one of the issues that we're running on here is support for coal workers. I released a report, just after I became the Labor Leader, about casualisation of the workforce, about what's happening, there had been a court case that has been won by Mr Skene, taken by the coal miners' union. And the Federal Government are spending $300,000 of your listeners' money, taxpayers' money, to challenge that decision, to support the challenge of that decision in the High Court. Now, we have a pretty simple principle, which is same job, same pay. If people are working side by side doing the same work, they should be paid the same. But increasingly, we see the big mining companies using labour hire, using contracting out to undermine wages and conditions. That's one of the issues that we're concerned about.

PHILPOTT: Why can't you guys punch through on that one? And I'm pointing my fingers at all politicians here, not political sides.

ALBANESE: Well, we're going to continue to run on it. And our candidates throughout the region, the union, of course, did that report through the McKell Foundation. It's a big issue. And when you have people who say they care about miners but won't speak out in the Government against it, then that's an issue. We've said, as part of my industrial relations policy I announced for fair work and more secure work, we've said we'll fix it, that we will actually legislate to make sure if people are doing the same job, they should receive the same pay. And what that will do is remove the incentive that's there at the moment to contract out, to use labour hire, to pretend that workers working side by side are somehow different.

PHILPOTT: The thing that's rather interesting where we are, we've got tens of thousands of people involved directly in mining met coal. Now, we know met coal is going to go for quite some time. We've got thousands in thermal coal. Thermal coal is going to wrap up sooner or later. We can't really put a number on it right now. But you've got to transition these people into something or another. And the normal line we hear from down south is, 'Oh, it's not a problem, we'll just put them into renewable jobs'. But we know with the amount of solar farms we have, you've got a massive one out just the back that are owned by Adani, or Bravus as they are there, employs about 20 people, of which most are security guards. So how do we transition these people with really good skills in mind into good paying jobs that still serve the country well?

ALBANESE: The nature of mining is changing as well. One of the places we visited, and where we had the announcement of our candidate, was the Resources Centre of Excellence. And that's looking at the way that industry is changing, the use of drones, the use of technology. And we see that across the board. But what they're also looking at there is having an advanced manufacturing hub. Now, we've been very good in this country. And we've been well-served by the fact that our resources have been exported overseas, which has given us income. But what we need to do in the future is to make sure, in addition to that, some of which will continue for some time and those decisions, much of which is out of our control, but metallurgical coal, which is what 90 per cent of the exports, or there abouts, from the Bowen Basin are. We're going to need that to build wind turbines and to do things as well. But why is it that we import wind turbines and solar panels into this country? We have everything that goes into a solar panel. We have everything that will be expanded in terms of batteries with the rise globally of electric vehicles. And one of the things that they're looking at the Centre of Excellence is rare earths and how we can maximise the potential there. Now, if we produce everything like lithium, like copper, like nickel, that goes into a battery, why aren't we making more batteries here, creating high-value jobs? That's what we need to do. And if we're smart about it, then we can be a powerhouse for the world. We can have cheaper energy, which drives manufacturing, particularly high-value manufacturing. And yes, because of technology it will mean, in terms of per output, labour is less as a cost of production. So on the one hand, if you look at it really narrowly, that means less jobs to produce the same output as before. On the other hand, though, one of the things we saw with manufacturing in this country in the 1970s and 80s was an export of jobs to Taiwan, to China, to Thailand, to the Philippines. And that's because of labour costs. And we don't want to compete with those countries by driving down our wages. Because labour will be a smaller proportion of the costs of production, and transport will be a higher proportion, it makes more sense, it's more economical than ever before to produce things here. So we need to identify what the products are that we can produce. And for most of that, regional Australia is particularly well-positioned.

PHILPOTT: Crazy regional question for you. 

ALBANESE: Here we go. 

PHILPOTT: I mean, I used to live in Sydney, but saw the light and moved to the bush. It's a wonderful place, it really is.

ALBANESE: It's a superb day here in Mackay today, I've got to say. I had an aunty who lived in Sydney, who moved up here, met a fellow and lived the end of her life, the last 20 years of her life here. And she absolutely loved it.

PHILPOTT: It's not hard to sell to someone from Sydney or Melbourne. And there's plenty of jobs now. But I was wondering, from Canberra's point of view, do we want to decentralise Australia? And if so, why do we keep sticking things in the city all the time?

ALBANESE: What we actually need to do is to work on things like the manufacturing hub, to work on things like rare earths and how we value add. The public sector has got a role to play. But how do we create good, secure, private sector jobs in the regions that drive growth? How do we benefit from it? The lifestyle here is fantastic. If you can produce things like the NBN, which was rolled out here in Mackay, of course, I was a former Communications Minister when I was Deputy Prime Minister. What that was about was saying to the business community, 'If you are located in Mackay as opposed to George Street in Brisbane, you can have the same access to domestic markets and to the globe, international markets, but with lower overheads and with a workforce that's pretty happy because this is a great place to live'. And they're the sort of measures that you need if you're serious about regional economic development.

PHILPOTT: That is Anthony Albanese, the Leader of the Opposition, in Mackay yesterday sitting in the studios here at ABC Tropical North.

ENDS