MARK RILEY, HOST: Gentlemen, thank you both for being here tonight. We appreciate it. It's been a gruelling four weeks on the campaign, six days to go. This time next week, one of you will be the Prime Minister of country. Two million people have already voted, another 18 million before 6pm on Saturday. This is your final chance to connect with those voters and my job is to allow you to do that. So, let's get to it. Mr Dutton, you've won the coin toss and you have elected to speak first with your opening statement. One minute, please.
 
PETER DUTTON, OPPOSITION LEADER: Well, Mark, thank you very much, and Prime Minister, thank you for being here tonight. This election is all about who can best manage the Australian economy. And if we can manage the economy well, it means that we can bring inflation down. It means that we can help families with the cost of living crisis that this Government's created. We live in the best country in the world, but we do know that many families are doing it tough. And as we've moved around the country, we've spoken to families literally in tears, they can't afford to put food on the table, they've stopped the registration renewal on their motor vehicle or on their house. They have had a tough three years under this Government. And there are very few, if any, Australians that I've met over the course of the last three years who can say that they are better off under this Prime Minister's watch. We need to make sure that our country can be kept safe. And we need strong leadership in a very uncertain world to make sure that we can keep our country safe. And I believe very strongly that at this election, Australians will vote for change. There is a better way to manage our economy and to manage our national security. And that's exactly what I have on offer at this election.
 
RILEY: Thanks, Mr Dutton. Mr Albanese, your opening statement, please.
 
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Well, thanks, Mark. And thanks, Peter. Australians have a real choice this Saturday to continue building Australia's future or go back to the past. Labor has a real plan for cost of living support today whilst building with investment for tomorrow. Tax cuts for every Australian taxpayer, strengthening Medicare, including through our 1800 MEDICARE line, making more things here in Australia, 20 per cent cut in student debt and a 5 per cent deposit for first homeowners. We know that we live in very uncertain times and that's why we need certainty. And during this campaign, we have put forward clear, decisive policies. The Opposition have chopped and changed. Australians deserve certainty. What we will deliver is just that. We will trust in our people, we will value our Australian values and we’ll build Australia's future.
 
RILEY: Thanks very much, gentlemen. You both mentioned the magic phrase in your opening statements, ‘the cost of living’. It is the issue that is galvanising the nation at this election. So, our first question tonight is on that issue. Australian families, we know, are doing it tough, they're under the pump. Our viewers constantly tell us that they're getting smashed at the supermarkets every week. What will you do from Sunday to make their lives easier? Mr Albanese, you first.
 
PRIME MINISTER: We completely understand how tough it is for people out there. That's why we've already acted on cost of living. But we know there is more to do. That's why we'll deliver an increased tax cut, not just one, but two tax cuts in the next term. That's why we'll continue to support real wage growth. Real wages have grown five quarters in a row. We know that that is important as well. But we've also got the plans for cheaper medicines, $25, we've brought the costs down. Energy bill relief, the cheaper child care policy that has benefited families by $2,700. We will continue to address those cost of living measures while getting inflation down. Inflation had a six in front of it when we were elected, it's now at 2.4. Interest rates started to rise before we were elected, now they've started to fall and we know the impact that that has on the Australian people.
 
RILEY: Mr Dutton, what will you offer to families in the way of cost of living relief from Sunday?
 
DUTTON: Well, Mark, we want to provide immediate relief to Australian families, and that's through a cut in the petrol tax by 25 cents a litre for petrol and diesel. And that means for families, it means for pensioners and for university students, for tradies right across the economy, downward pressure on a very important cost that people have to face up to each week. It will save about $14 every time you fill up your tank. That's the immediate assistance. Secondly, $1,200 back by way of a tax rebate that will help people deal with Labor's cost of living crisis. But the Prime Minister promises a band aid on a bullet wound. The damage that's been done over the last three years is significant. We've had the biggest drop in living standards compared to any other developed country in the world. Interest rates started to drop in other countries before they dropped here, and they've only dropped by 0.25 of 1 per cent after having risen on 12 occasions. So, we provide that immediate relief and then our longer term plan is to fix up the energy crisis because that's what's driven up the cost of food by 30 per cent. It's driven up the cost of everything across the economy. And that has to be the real - I think when you think about, and it is emotional when you think about what families are going through, but that long term relief is actually going to turn around Labor’s very bad position.
 
RILEY: Alright, I've been lenient, Mr Dutton. Mr Albanese, the question was about families getting smashed at the supermarket. We heard all of your policies and we've heard them and now they're out there on the table. What is going to help families at the supermarket from Sunday?
 
PRIME MINISTER: What's going to help is the mandated code of conduct that we brought into supermarkets. Previously, the former government just had a voluntary code that was abused. People know that when they go to the supermarket and they see the price of a good reduced or put up by a dollar and then reduced by 50 cents and they pretend that that's a price cut, people know that supermarkets are just having a lend.
 
RILEY:  So, what will you do about it?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that's why we've got the code of conduct with real penalties in there as well, as well as stopping price gouging. But if I can take up Peter's points briefly. The measures that Peter is putting forward are all temporary. They disappear in a year's time. The difference between that and what we're putting forward is ours are permanent. Permanent tax cuts, putting that $1,000 instant tax deduction will make a difference permanently. The real wage increases that have been delivered that Peter's industrial relations policy would undermine, taking away Same Job, Same Pay. They want to get rid of taking away work from home, we know that that's the case. We need permanent change that makes a real difference to the living standards of Australians.
 
RILEY: Alright. Some of the change you're proposing isn't permanent either. The household energy rebate will disappear in six months. Mr Dutton, when that was introduced, you first called it a Ponzi scheme because it's taxpayers subsidising taxpayers. You now support the extension for six months. You did that just before the election. Your fuel excise cut that you talked about is taxpayers supporting taxpayers. It's the same thing, isn't it, I mean, it's a taxpayer funded shopper docket?
 
DUTTON: Well, Mark, a couple of points. I mean, firstly, the Prime Minister looked the Australian people in the eye before the last election and on 97 occasions said that power prices would come down by $275 –
 
RILEY: We’re talking about petrol prices –
 
DUTTON: They've gone up by $1,300. Now, what we've said, as we said over the course of COVID, and if you look at the way in which the Liberal Party, the Coalition, always manages money and the economy more efficiently than Labor, what we did during COVID was say, okay, we're going to introduce JobKeeper JobSeeker changes. We help businesses survive and stay open. We help people keep their jobs –
 
RILEY: Petrol –
 
DUTTON: Well, the point I make though, Mark, is that when we've made those changes and when we implemented those plans during the course of COVID those payments aren't still being made today. They were there to address the needs in the economy at the time. And our argument is that yes, it'll take us time to clean up Labor's mess, but in the interim, that immediate support, that 25 cent a litre cut in petrol that can be provided to help people with the bills that they're facing now and also the $1,200. Now, our policy in relation to energy is to bring Australian gas back into the market so we can increase supply. It brings the cost of gas down –
 
RILEY: We will get to energy –
 
DUTTON: 24 per cent which actually brings down the cost of groceries and construction costs etc.
 
RILEY: Alright. Okay. We will get on to energy, I promise you. Mr Albanese, $6 billion on this petrol excise cut. Is that money well spent? Won't people like cheaper petrol?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Let's be very clear. I mean, that is something that Scott Morrison did before the 2022 election and then it disappeared. It's the same policy being put forward here –
 
RILEY: Your household rebate disappears before that does –
 
PRIME MINISTER: But their income tax cuts that we have legislated, they're going to actually increase the income taxes of all 14 million Australians, as well as oppose other measures such as a student debt cut of 20 per cent, the Free TAFE that's made a difference as well, cheaper child care, they've been critical of. Every single one of the cost of living measures has been opposed by the Coalition, and we know that people are doing it tough. But we also know this, and your viewers know, that we're living through the biggest inflation global issue since the 1980s and the biggest energy crisis since the 1970s. Now that's something we've had to deal with. We've dealt with it in a mature way, getting that inflation down whilst providing cost of living relief because we know that people are doing it tough.
 
RILEY: Okay, well, let's move on. Our second question tonight is on housing, a big issue. Mr Albanese, you recently bought a $4.3 million beachside house. Mr Dutton, we know that you've had $30 million in properties over your life. I think we can both all agree that housing is not an issue for you but for a lot of Australians it really is. What does the Australian dream look like today for an average Australian in the property market Mr Dutton?
 
DUTTON: Well, Mark, it looks like a nightmare and it's a nightmare because rents have gone up by almost 20 per cent and this Prime Minister has brought in a million people over the course of the last two years through the migration program. That is a 70 per cent increase on any two-year period in our country's history. So, when you bring a million people in, they want house for their kids and their family, fair enough. But what we've seen is Australians being displaced from home ownership and our young Australians now, saving harder than ever, paying more rent than ever, they're locked out of the market. So, what we've said is that we want to work with councils to bring 500,000 blocks of land online through a $5 billion scheme for first home buyers, a $650,000 mortgage, or up to that amount, you can deduct the interest off your taxable income, which will give you about $1,000 a month, which will help you with your application to the bank, but also it will help you meet the monthly repayments. We're going to put a two year ban in place for foreigners from competing against young Australians in the housing market. And we're going to cut migration by 25%.
 
RILEY: And we will talk about migration, Mr Dutton. So, Mr Albanese, what does the Australian dream look like to you for average Australians?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, Australians know that this is an issue for them because it has got tougher to buy your own home, but they know it hasn't happened over the last couple of years. We've had a decade or even more of neglect. And the question isn't, do you identify a problem, it's can you work towards a solution? And that's what my Government has done. A 5 per cent deposit for first home buyers will make an enormous difference, so that instead of never getting to that 20 per cent figure, always paying off someone else's mortgage. People will be able to get into their first home and pay off their own mortgage. But the key as well is supply. And that's why our measures, whether it be increased private rentals through our incentives for Build to Rent programs, our First Home Buyers Scheme, or whether it be the increased support for social housing, we are concentrating on supply, not just demand, because we know that's the key going forward.
 
RILEY: Mr Dutton, you mentioned migration in there about housing, and I know, I've heard you say many times on the campaign trail thus far that the, the number of people coming into Australia is putting pressure on the real estate market or the property market. Don't we need skilled migrants? Aren't we screaming out for skilled migrants to build the sort of houses you're talking about?
 
DUTTON: Well, Mark, of course we do. And we've been, as a country, the net beneficiary of a great migration program. But it needs to be done in a balanced and measured way. This government hasn't had control of our borders. They've released people from immigration detention who have gone on to commit very serious crimes against Australians. The whole, every aspect of the migration program has been mismanaged by this Government. And if you bring in a million people over two years, over a five year period, it'll be about 2 million people, a population bigger than the size of Adelaide. And yet money's been pulled out of infrastructure. The Government's signature housing policy hasn't built one home. And the fact is that young Australians know this. Young Australians are putting off having children under this Government because they can't afford a mortgage and a family at the same time. And for many families, otherwise, parents and grandparents, they're staying in the workforce for longer because they're either having to help their kids with a deposit or to make the repayments. And that's the, that's the crisis that the Prime Minister has created. And that's why we have to cut migration, to focus on the skilled migration, yes, but to make sure that Australians can get into housing.
 
RILEY: Mr Albanese.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the truth is that the migration rates have fallen by 31 per cent in the last year. And after COVID, of course, there was going to be more people coming in short term. The Government is addressing that by lowering migration at the same time as we're building housing. There have been 400,000 homes completed since we came to office. Our Housing Australia Future Fund –
 
RILEY: Not one, he said, under your scheme.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Our Housing Australia Future Fund, which they held up, together the Coalition and the Greens, that's now in operation. 28,000 homes either under construction –
 
DUTTON: But not one completed.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Either under construction or in planning. Well, one of the schemes, the Help to Buy scheme, was passed in the Parliament last December. Now you're having a lend, to oppose all of those measures and then say, why haven't the homes been built? The former government didn't even have a housing minister for half the time they were in office and invested a total of $5 billion. We've got a $43 billion Homes for Australia plan. We've lifted rental assistance by 45 per cent. But we've done something else as well. We are training more tradies to work on those homes by giving a $10,000 Apprenticeship Support Program to encourage young people and people retraining to go into construction.
 
RILEY: Mr Albanese, you've said, I think a few times in this campaign, but I want you to say tonight, categorically, negative gearing is off the table?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, it's off the table. And the evidence is that – we were elected in 2022, the Coalition ran this campaign then, we haven't done it, because of good policy.
 
RILEY: It was recommended in 2016, 2019 by the Labor Party. The Treasury has done work on it, we know that.
 
PRIME MINISTER: It was, and we moved on because the key is supply, and that measure will not boost supply. So, that is what we have been concentrating on. And Labor is a party of aspiration. We want people to get ahead. We want people to have access to their own home. And the key to that is supply.
 
RILEY: So, negative gearing, never ever. Do you believe him?
 
DUTTON: No, I don't. The Prime Minister said before the last election that there'd be no changes to superannuation. And the Prime Minister has introduced a tax which taxes an unrealised capital gain. So, just to put that into, you know, sort of basic terms, if you've got shares and the shares go up in value, or if you've got a house and the house goes up in value, this Government is going to tax you on that gain before you actually sell the shares or sell the house.
 
RILEY: Yeah, that's, that's, we know that's caught up in the in the Parliament. That's not law.
 
DUTTON: No, but that's the Government's policy. They mentioned nothing of it before the election.
 
RILEY: Indeed. Okay, let's go to tax cuts. Mr Albanese, you're promising $5 a week tax cut in 15 months’ time. Not enough for a coffee. What difference is that going to make?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it's a top up of our tax cuts. We had the guts to make a tough decision, but it was done for the right reasons. I went along to the National Press Club, fronted up and said that what we are going to do is to change our policy because we understood that people were doing it tough. You can't just say people are doing it tough, but I won't do anything about it. So, what we did was we changed that to take money, $4,500 off our tax cuts, to make sure that those viewers at home on that first marginal tax rate got a tax cut. They wouldn't have got a single dollar. That is why it's important. And we'll add to it by targeting, deliberately, that first rate, taking it from 16 down to 15 and down to 14, which will put $2,500 into people's pockets. At the same time, of course, as wages are increasing. And we're also delivering a $1,000 instant tax deduction which will make a difference, particularly for low and middle income earners.
 
RILEY: Thanks, Mr Albanese. Mr Dutton, part of the rationale for this, $5 a week and then $10 a week tax cut is to target what we call bracket creep. So, your wage goes up through inflation, you pay higher tax. That's part of that. You say you have an aspiration to change the tax, to index the tax rates to alleviate the problem with bracket creep. Yet at the same time, you're going to this election, as the Prime Minister just pointed out, promising the people you will repeal a tax cut. I don't know of any leader who's ever done that. Is that crazy brave or just crazy?
 
DUTTON: Well, Mark, what we've said is that you can have the Labor option, which is 70 cents a day, in 15 months’ time, as you point out, or you could have a 25 cent a litre cut to fuel excise now. So, $14 per tank per week, that's about $1,500 a year, $1,200 back for each taxpayer in an average income household. So, $,2400, you equate that compared to the 70 cents a day, people are better off. So, people can pay income tax, they can pay excise tax. There are other taxes that they pay. We're reducing that overall tax burden on the family, but we're providing that as an interim solution until we can fix up Labor's mess. The biggest issue at the moment is the fact, and the Reserve Bank Governor has pointed out this, that the homegrown inflation under this Government, the spending, the massive spending has led to inflation staying higher for longer. And under this Government, if they're re-elected with the Greens, more spending will mean higher interest rates and that will be devastating for homeowners right across the economy.
 
RILEY: We've heard that about the Reserve Bank Governor and the Prime Minister has many times accused you of verballing her. She did make some observations about homegrown inflation, but I don't think it was as broad as that. Mr Albanese, Mr Dutton saying that sometime in the future he will cut tax.
 
PRIME MINISTER: He's going to increase it. He's going to this election campaign saying that he will increase the income tax of all 14 million Australians. And the changes that he's spoken about will disappear in 12 months’ time. That is the difference. They don't have structural changes going through such as the ones that we've implemented that last. Whether it's cheaper medicines, whether it be the income tax cuts, the real wage increases. I mean they have said they'll get rid of measures like Same Job, Same Pay that have -
 
RILEY: We're talking about tax, we're talking about tax.
 
DUTTON: But, but that, that is just, I mean, that is not true, Prime Minister, you're honestly, this whole campaign, it's hard to believe anything you say. And this is the case, obviously, with the $275, you've never mentioned it again. The promises that you've made in relation to migration, the numbers blow out every quarter. You've made promises in relation to housing, you haven't delivered any housing. You have created an economic mess in our country. And our job as a Liberal government, as was the case for John Howard, is to clean up the Labor mess. And that's what we will do through the interim measures, but how we bring down prices and inflation is to reduce some of the economy wide impact of your energy policy and that is how we can bring down the cost of groceries. We have a plan before the Australian people which I think provides a solution to your problems. The creation of which you should be ashamed of, frankly, over the last three years -
 
RILEY: You should be ashamed and you're a liar.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, Peter can attack me, but I tell you what I won't let him do. I won't let him attack the wages of working people. I won't let him attack the changes that we've put in place for cheaper child care. I won't let him abandon Free TAFE so that people can get an opportunity in life. I won't let him get away with this nonsense about economic management. We inherited a deficit of $78 billion. We turned that into a $22 billion surplus. We delivered another surplus and we halved, we halved the deficit this year. Inflation is now 2.4 per cent in the bottom half of the Reserve Bank band. It was six and rising when we came to office. We have worked hard, the Australian people have worked hard in order to get that under control. And they deserve better than this pretence that everything was hunky dory in 2022 because it wasn’t –
 
DUTTON: If that's the case, like if that's the case, if what the Prime Minister has just said is true, if real wages have gone up and people are so much better off. Real wages have gone up by 10 per cent. Prices of groceries have gone up by 30 per cent. Real wages have gone backwards.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Is inflation 2.4?
 
RILEY: Where's that number, the 30 per cent, where’s that number from?
 
DUTTON: The 30 per cent increase in grocery prices over the last three years, the cost of electricity is up by 32 per cent –
 
PRIME MINISTER: Is inflation 2.4?
 
DUTTON: The cost of gas is up by 34 per cent -
 
PRIME MINISTER: That’s not right.
 
DUTTON: Core inflation in this country is twice that of our G7 nations. You have, you can't stand here telling people they're much better off after three years. If you had a good story to tell, Prime Minister, you wouldn't be running a scare campaign. You'd be talking about your so-called achievements in the last three years. Families are being smashed under your government and if you're re-elected, the prices will keep going up.
 
PRIME MINISTER: The difference between us in this election campaign is that you have identified a range of issues, but you have no solutions, and you pretend that they've arisen in May 2022. Now, it's just a fact that the inflation rate is 2.4 per cent. That doesn't mean that there aren't people out there doing it tough, of course they are. But that's why we're undertaking these measures to look after people, not to go out there, talk Australia down and to try to secure political advantage from grievance.
 
RILEY: Okay. Good exchange, few talking points in there. I'm going to jump on them from here on. Now, before we pose our fourth question, we want to talk to you about something that's happened just recently that I think you both can agree is a stain on our country. Anzac Day, people booing the Welcome to Country. It just started, I mean that's an abhorrent thing to happen. But it started a broader discussion. There are people in Australia who are uncomfortable with being welcomed to country. Veterans who've said that, that they fought for this country, their blood is in the soil. Why do they need to be welcomed to country? Mr Dutton, as Prime Minister, we know you won't stand in front of the Indigenous flag. Will you have Welcome to Country ceremonies? Will you have smoking ceremonies? Will you acknowledge the Traditional Owners at your official events?
 
DUTTON: Well, Mark, the point I've made in relation to the flag is that I don't believe that we can be the best country we can be if we're asking people to identify under different flags. No other country comparable to ours does that. I want to unite our country. I want every Australian to be equal. If you've got 65,000 years of heritage in this country or you came here six days ago, as an Australian citizen, we are all equal. And that's the point that I make. You can have respect, as I do for the Indigenous flag and the Torres Strait Islander flag, but I want our country to be one and I think that's the best chance of reconciliation –
 
RILEY: That is the flag –
 
DUTTON: In relation to the Welcome to Country. First point I'd make in relation to Anzac Day is that that is our most sacred day of the year and it is a time to respect diggers and it's not a time for booing any part of that ceremony.
 
RILEY: We all agree on that.
 
DUTTON: In relation, in relation to the Welcome to Country, otherwise, I think there is, and people have said this to me as we've moved across the country, there is a sense across the community that it's overdone. For the opening of Parliament, fair enough, it's respectful to do. But for the start of every meeting at work or the start of a football game, I think a lot of Australians think it's overdone and it cheapens the significance of what it was meant to do. It divides the country. Not dissimilar to what the Prime Minister did with the Voice.
 
RILEY: Okay. Alright. I’ve got to go to the Prime Minister. You heard that it cheapens the Traditional Owners respect that has been shown by people who allow a Welcome to Country in events. What's your view?
 
PRIME MINISTER: The first thing that I'd say about the Anzac Day commemorations and the way in which they were disrupted is that Peter and I agree, and I think most Australians will agree, that that was abhorrent and really an act of cowardice on a day in which we celebrate the bravery of those men and women who've worn our uniforms.
 
RILEY: Mr Dutton has just said that the Welcome to the Country is overused and is cheapened by its overuse. You always have at your official events, I've been at a lot of them, smoking ceremonies, Welcome to Country, acknowledgement of Traditional Owners.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, from my perspective it's a matter of respect. But it's also, of course, up to the organisations that are hosting an event of whether they have a Welcome to Country or not. It's up to them and people will have different views and people are entitled to their views. But we have a great privilege from my perspective of sharing this continent with the oldest continuous culture on earth. And when I welcome international visitors to Parliament House, you know what they want to see, that culture. The New Zealand national anthem, as you know, is on Anzac Day said in Māori language as well as in English, in recognition of the fullness and richness of the history of New Zealand.
 
DUTTON: But, Prime Minister, do you think it's overdone, the Welcome to Country?
 
PRIME MINISTER: It's up to people to determine whether they have a Welcome to Country or not. But from my perspective, from my perspective, for major events, it is, of course, a sign of respect.
 
RILEY: So, you're going to continue to do it and you're going to do it as selected events only major events?
 
DUTTON: I think at the opening of Parliament it's appropriate and I think at other very significant to events of that nature, yes. But I do think that the most important thing we can do is provide practical reconciliation. I think the nation was aghast when the Prime Minister spent $450 million and sought to divide us over the Voice debate on heritage and on cultural grounds. I think Australians, in their hearts, want to see a better outcome for Indigenous Australians in terms of health outcomes and education outcomes. But that hasn't happened under this Government's watch. We've had three years where we've seen devastating circumstances in Alice Springs, in Darwin, only in the last few days, where a man again has lost his life. And we want to see the practical reconciliation and improvements for lives of Indigenous Australians. But the Prime Minister himself can't bring himself to an honest answer to say whether it's overdone or not.
 
RILEY: Right. So, let's interrogate that. Prime Minister, we did have 18 months. You made the promise at the last election and you followed that through. And people gave you respect for having the conviction to follow through your undertaking to Indigenous peoples. The Voice, you told us, was important for Australia, for who we are, for our standing in the world. It was a polite request from Indigenous people. And you've dropped it cold afterwards. Why?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Because I respect the outcome. We live in a democracy. It was a request made not under my Government, made at Uluru in 2017 under a process that was established –
 
RILEY: Do you still believe in it?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Under the former government, it's gone.
 
RILEY: No, no. What's your personal view? Prime Minister –
 
PRIME MINISTER: It was not successful. I'll tell you what I believe.
 
RILEY: We know that, but Prime Minister, sorry –
 
PRIME MINISTER: We need to find different paths to achieve reconciliation in this country. And the truth is that all Governments –
 
DUTTON: But does he still believe it Mark, though, or not? Can we get a straight answer?
 
PRIME MINISTER: That all Governments have not done well enough. That's the truth. The Labor Party, the Liberal Party, have not done well enough –
 
RILEY: But you still believe, Prime Minister, I mean, people want to know this. You still believe in what the Voice was trying to achieve. It's just the name that you've abandoned. You'll still try and get the objectives.
 
PRIME MINISTER: No, that process was not successful. Does that mean though, that you shouldn't consult with Indigenous people about matters that affect them? Of course not, and that's what we're doing. That's what we're doing through the Coalition of Peaks, through a range of bodies as well. The Coalition of Peaks address, for example, the National Cabinet process. And we need to do better to achieve those outcomes on education, on health, on housing. We've introduced, for example, in economic empowerment, a program to replace the old Work for the Dole schemes in remote communities with real jobs, with real wages, with real training.
 
RILEY: With respect, we have heard those policies and we know them. Australia Day, should we change the date?
 
PRIME MINISTER: No.
 
DUTTON: No.
 
RILEY: Okay. You heard what the Prime Minister said.
 
DUTTON: You've found consensus. That's impressive.
 
RILEY: How about that, how about that. It was quick, but still it's an issue that is so divisive. We talk about it every year. How do we get beyond that annual conversation that becomes an argument?
 
PRIME MINISTER: I think one of the things that we need to do is to look at how we can bring people together.
 
RILEY: I'm going to give you about 20 seconds on this, PM.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Sorry, and just part of my experience of Australia Day is that there is acknowledgement of the fullness and richness of our 65,000 years of history, but there's also acknowledgement of what happened with settlement, the celebrating the 26th of January when the First Fleet arrived, and the migrants who've come to make Australia their home. We have three parts of that history and we should celebrate all of it.
 
RILEY: I think we can all agree with that, but Mr Dutton?
 
DUTTON: Well, Mark, there are millions of people who have come to our country from all parts of the world. We've been very fortunate that that's been the case. And Australia Day has significance for them and for their forebears because that was the day on which they became an Australian citizen on the date that they signed up to the best country in the world. So, I think we need to respect it. I also think, frankly in our schools, we need to stop the teaching of some of the curriculum that says that our children should be ashamed of being Australian, effectively. We've made mistakes in our history. There's no question about that. But we can't live with that shame forever. We need to accept that mistakes were made and we need to make sure that we celebrate our national day as most other countries do, because --
 
RILEY: This is the problem, though --
 
DUTTON: We need to defend what we have in this country and what people fought to defend.
 
RILEY: We are going to move on, but I can feel the frustration coming through the cameras from the lounge rooms of Australia. This is it, the black armband view of Australian history. We argued about that endlessly during the Howard years. We are still arguing about it. I think that's the point that we need to get beyond this. Anyway, we're going on to defence. The world is changing before our eyes with war in Ukraine and the Middle East, you're both promising to spend more on the military. Prime Minister, you've made some comments subsequent to the Opposition Leader's announcement last week, but we still rely on the US principally for our protection. There's a guy called Donald Trump. This is like Charles and Diana, this election campaign. There's somebody else in this relationship. His name's Trump. Can we trust Donald Trump to be our protector, Mr Albanese.?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the relationship that I've had with the President is to have two discussions and he stuck to the agreements that we made, that he would give great consideration, in his words. We agreed on those words. So I start, I think with people on a hundred percent trust. But he has different views, different values. I support free and fair trade. He doesn't, he thinks tariffs are the way forward for the United States. I see --
 
RILEY: As a security partner is the question though. Can we trust Donald Trump to have our back on security?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Yes. And the US system of course is very important. And when I went to the United States for the official visit. I met with over one hundred Congress people and Senators across Democrat, Republican. There's universal support for the relationship with Australia, and I think that gives us confidence, that it's in the United States' interests as well as in Australia's interest for that defence security relationship.
 
RILEY: There is a point though, there, that you haven't heard from Donald Trump, though we know that you've attempted to get a meeting with him. You're in caretaker now. Mr Dutton, can we trust Donald Trump to have our back?
 
DUTTON: We can trust whoever's in the Oval Office, Mark, and we respect the views of the American people. They've elected a president. I've been very fortunate to work closely with the Obama Administration with Trump Mark One with the Biden Administration. And I have found, even though we might have political differences, the overwhelming sense as the Prime Minister points out from Republicans and Democrats on the hill in the Senate in the West Wing, regardless of administrations, there is a strong support for the Alliance. We've stood shoulder to shoulder with the Americans for a hundred years. They came to our aid in the Battle of the Coral Sea. And we live in an uncertain period. Anthony describes it as the most precarious period since the second World War. That's why we've announced $21 billion extra of funding into defence over the next five years to protect us and defend us and maintain peace in the region. And we have to rely on the United States, as they do on us for parts of the relationship, and with our other Five Eyes partners as well.
 
RILEY: Okay. You both trust Donald Trump. Just quickly, you got his number, you text him?
 
PRIME MINISTER: No. I'm not sure that he has a mobile phone, the US President. Or Joe Biden. It's not the way it works when you have, with any global leader --
 
RILEY: That's the way it works with you though, surely, you text people all the time. --
 
PRIME MINISTER: We text each other. We do. But global leaders, you set up, there's people taking notes from either side. It's not something that's a casual relationship. It's at a very different level -
 
RILEY: Hang on. We're not good enough to have Trump's mobile number or he doesn't have one?
 
PRIME MINISTER: I don't know, but I know that --
 
DUTTON: Do you have Keir Starmer's number?
 
PRIME MINISTER: When we have discussions, what we do is we have note takers on both sides. We have them in secure rooms. You don't have discussions with global leaders -
 
RILEY: I understand -
 
PRIME MINISTER: - just over the phone.
 
RILEY: Sorry, I'm aware of the protocols and they are there, but I'm sure on your phone there are lots of text messages from world leaders that are off piste. Mr Dutton?
 
DUTTON: I think the answer was no there, Mark. I think that was the straight answer. We didn't get it.
 
RILEY: Will you get it? Will he give it to you? His number?
 
DUTTON: Well, as I say, we worked with both Republican and Democrat administrations. We were able to negotiate the outcome on AUKUS, the nuclear submarine deal, with both the United States and the United Kingdom, a Democrat administration in the US, a Conservative administration in the UK.
 
RILEY: We're talking about Mr Trump. He's elusive. He's an elusive character to get hold of and to talk to. We know that all world leaders are lining up trying to speak --
 
DUTTON: But just on that point though, Mark, I mean in the first Trump Administration, we had Ambassador Hockey on the ground. We had the ability to reach into the Administration and not just the President, but people of influence around the President to get the best possible outcome for our country.
 
RILEY: But many countries did. And there have been no exemptions this time. I mean, we've done no worse than anybody else. In fact, we've done better than a lot of other countries.
 
PRIME MINISTER: No country has done better than Australia. The truth is that this is a different administration with a different president and a very clear agenda.
 
RILEY: Different is a very interesting word.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, he says very clearly that tariff, he sees as a revenue gain for the United States. I see it as an act of economic self-harm. One that will increase inflation, increase unemployment in the United States. And I do see that there will be a reassessment of where it's going on. We've seen that with the changes in position that the United States has announced on a day-to-day basis.
 
RILEY: He's certainly made many changes. We started talking about defence in this section. Simple question, which country poses the biggest threat to Australia's security? Mr Dutton?
 
DUTTON: If you were to believe the intelligence that I received as Defence Minister and as the Leader of the Opposition, and no doubt that the Prime Minister receives as well. The biggest concern from our intelligence agencies and our defence agency is in relation to the Communist Party of China. And they're worried about the conflict in our region. They're worried about what that would do to impact on our trade, what it would do for our own security settings and what we would need to do to respond to say a cyber-attack on our country.
 
RILEY: Are you afraid of China?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we know that China seeks to increase its influence in the region. We're in a constant -
 
RILEY: Should we be worried about China though? Does China pose the biggest risk to our national security?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, China is the major power in the region, which is seeking to increase its influence. But the relationship is complex as well, because China is our major trading partner. So, what we have to do is to invest in our capability. That's what we've done. $57 billion in defence assets increased. But as well, invest in our relationships, so that, the best example of soft diplomacy I think is, and has had bipartisan support, is the PNG rugby league team. There's a whole range of -
 
RILEY: I don't think China plays rugby league and that's where we are.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Exactly. That's the point.
 
RILEY: Well, they play ping pong. We've had ping pong diplomacy in the past. Mr Dutton named China. You didn't?
 
PRIME MINISTER: No, no. I said China -
 
RILEY: Is the biggest threat to Australia -
 
PRIME MINISTER: Is the country that seeks influence in the region to extend -
 
RILEY: Biggest threat? Biggest threat, yes or no? --
 
PRIME MINISTER: And that is what we are dealing with --
 
RILEY: Biggest threat?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I'm the Prime Minister of a country and how you deal as Prime Minister is diplomatically and that is what we continue to do.
 
RILEY: Okay, now to energy. Mr Dutton, you are promising nuclear energy in 10 years. Mr Albanese, you are backing green energy. Why do you think your plan is best to keep the lights on Mr Dutton?
 
DUTTON: Well, Mark, if we have a look around the world, of the top 20 economies, Australia is the only one that doesn't have or hasn't signed up to nuclear power, it's a zero emissions technology. It reduces the cost compared to the renewables only policy of the Prime Minister by 44 per cent. That's the independent analysis, and we know that we can keep the lights on. We can firm up the renewables in the system. We can't pretend that as the Prime Minister has said that your power bill is going to come down by $275 because wind and solar is free. Australians know that that's not right. The idea of having a lot of gas coming into the system and making sure that we can use that as an interim measure is a central part to our east coast gas reservation. We then move in 2035, right out to 2050, to invest in the best technology that we've got, the same technology that we've signed up to, both parties have signed up to, in relation to the nuclear submarines. That will allow us to really underpin energy security for the next century. And energy is the economy. And we need to take tough decisions to make sure that we can keep the lights on, we can bring power prices down, and that's exactly what we do.
 
RILEY: Alright, so you've heard that, Prime Minister, but I want to talk, and we will talk about nuclear, but I want to talk about your plan. If renewable energy is the cheapest form of power, why are taxpayers subsidising it in the multiples of billions of dollars?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the truth is that under the former government, 24 out of 28 coal-fired power stations announced their closure. What we need, so, we were way behind. Nothing was happening in terms of the investment that was needed. Now, with renewables, there's been already, enough projects approved, to power 10 million homes. We think the future is renewables, backed by gas, backed by hydro, backed by batteries. And for the same reason that it makes economic sense for listeners at home to put solar panels on their roof and will subsidise batteries, because it will make a difference, not just for them, but importantly as well, take pressure off the grid and benefit everyone through that measure. On gas, gas was $34 on the day of the last election. Today it is $13. That is the measure that we've put in place. We put in place those caps on gas and coal that have made an enormous difference.
 
RILEY: Would you be happy, Mr Dutton, to have a nuclear power plant in your suburb?
 
DUTTON: Yeah, I would Mark. As we know, we've got a safe technology that the Prime Minister signed up to. What Prime Minister in his or her right mind would sign up to a nuclear submarine and put our sailors onto the submarine thinking that there was a concern about safety? Now what we've said is that we will utilise seven existing coal-fired power stations. Why? Because when they come to an end of life, when the coal-fired power station closes, that community doesn't have jobs. And the experience in the UK, where the Labour Party is fully signed up, in the United States, where the Labor Party is fully signed up to nuclear, in Canada, where the Labor Party equivalent is fully signed up to nuclear, we know that those jobs transfer from the coal-fired power stations across to nuclear plants. It's what Apple is doing, it's what Oracle, what Microsoft is doing in terms of their data centres. They're only using those nuclear power stations –
 
RILEY: In countries that have established infrastructure and a history of using it, and we know all that and we have heard those –
 
DUTTON: I'll just make this point though, Mark, because it's an important point. What we have at the seven coal-fired power stations now is the distribution network. So, the poles and wires are already constructed and we have the ability to generate the electricity and to distribute that electricity to households and businesses. Under the Prime Minister's plan, they have to build 28,000 kilometres of new poles and wires, which is all going to be paid for in the tens of billions of dollars by taxpayers.
 
RILEY: Which you will defund –
 
DUTTON: The Prime Minister never talks about.
 
RILEY: Which you will defund. I understand that. If it's so good, why have you not been to one of those seven sites in the past four weeks? Now, I know you say you've been in the region, but it's not been at that community.
 
DUTTON: We were at Collie in Western Australia, one of the sites.
 
RILEY: Before the campaign –
 
DUTTON: Well, as Opposition Leader, I've been to three communities.
 
PRIME MINISTER: But not at a site.
 
RILEY: If you're proud of it, wouldn't you stand out in front of them and say, ‘this is the answer to our energy problem?’
 
DUTTON: Mark, I've been very proud of the fact that we have taken a decision which I think is in our country's best interests. I haven't taken it for crass political reasons because I think that we're going to get lots of votes. I think, frankly, a lot of Australians, as you pointed out in your opening remarks, are concentrating more on cost of living than they are in what's happening in 2035. I am proud of the fact that we have a vision for our country which goes beyond three years. It will set up our energy security for the next century. And if we can bring the cost of electricity and gas down, we can bring down the cost of groceries, of costs across the economy. We were at Bluescope the other day –
 
RILEY: Yep, we've seen you at Bluescope. We've seen you all sorts of other places –
 
DUTTON: I really want to tell you the Bluescope story, so we should talk about that.
 
RILEY: Will we see you at a nuclear power plant site in the next six days?
 
DUTTON: Well, Mark, we've been to three communities –
 
RILEY: Yes, I know. Sorry, yes, I know. We’re running out of time.
 
DUTTON: We've been to three communities already –
 
RILEY: So that's no. Okay, I've got it, Prime Minister?
 
PRIME MINISTER: If Peter went to the Collie site, which I have twice. Last year, and then back again, what he would see is, connecting up. It's going to use the same transmission lines that are currently used for the coal-fired power station that would shut in 2027 –
 
RILEY: This is a waste of money, Mr Dutton says –
 
PRIME MINISTER: He would see the batteries. The batteries which will power hundreds of thousands –
 
DUTTON: Can you be honest with the Australian people? The 10 million homes you talked about only are powered part-time. What do people do of a nighttime? What about hospitals? What about cold rooms? How does the economy run on part-time power?
 
RILEY: You can answer his question.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks. That will power hundreds of thousands of homes –
 
DUTTON: For four hours, the batteries last.
 
PRIME MINISTER: It’s being built there now. It will enable, I don't know how Peter thinks that water works. When it's not raining, people turn on the tap and the water's there. That's the same way that you can store energy and that is what is happening. In WA, will be completely coal-fired power free. Renewables, backed by gas, backed by batteries, and backed by hydro as well.
 
DUTTON: You're going to wreck this economy if you keep going with this Prime Minister, you will wreck the economy, and you're doing it now. And it's why families are suffering. It's why 30,000 small businesses have closed under your watch –
 
PRIME MINISTER: Peter there are more small businesses today –
 
DUTTON: The largest number of small businesses closures in the last 12 months, in any 12 months –
 
RILEY: I think what the Prime Minister is going to say is that there have been 30,000 closed. Tens of thousands have opened.
 
PRIME MINISTER: There have never been more small businesses in Australia than there are today.
 
RILEY: Right, we’re getting off topic. We're getting off topic. Nat.
 
NATALIE BARR, HOST: Thank you very much, Mark. How are you going at home? Is this helping you decide? Well, after the break, the rapid fire questions to decide the winner of the final showdown. They'll be short, they'll be sharp. You need to hear before voting, then Spotlight, the verdict, the jury of 60 undecided voters crown a winner. We're back in four minutes.

[AD BREAK]
 
BARR: Now some short, sharp answers on some quick fire questions in tonight's Hot Take.
 
RILEY: We'll use some images, play some audio or discuss some key moments.
 
BARR: Okay, ready? First gent, take a look at this. We were talking about the Aussie dream a bit earlier. What comes to mind when you see this, Mr Albanese?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Marriage.
 
BARR: Mr Dutton.
 
DUTTON: Retirement home.
 
BARR: Clever. Yeah. Okay, that was. That was a bit pointed. Just a reminder that that was the house that Mr Albanese bought.
 
PRIME MINISTER: And Jodie Haydon.
 
BARR: And Jodie.
 
RILEY: And Jodie.
 
PRIME MINISTER: I know some people have erased her out of history, but I haven't.
 
BARR: No, of course. Do you wish you put it in Jodie's name?
 
PRIME MINISTER: It's in our name.
 
BARR: But you know, it might have taken the focus off you.
 
RILEY: Okay, what about this? An icon of a TV show that's been on Labor’s strategy ads. Mr Dutton, your reaction?
 
DUTTON: Just a juvenile response from a Prime Minister who's not prepared to debate the topic.
 
RILEY: Mr Albanese?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I'm prepared to debate the topic and Peter was too busy yelling to hear our response, which is about, it doesn't stack up economically in Australia. $600 billion.
 
BARR: Okay, let's go. This one here is a dozen eggs. Mr Dutton, do you know how much they cost?
 
DUTTON: About $4.20.
 
RILEY: No, you might get half a dozen.
 
BARR: Mr Albanese.
 
PRIME MINISTER: $7 if you can find them. Because it's hard to find them at the moment.
 
RILEY: Yeah, you're looking at it. I reckon you're looking at eight plus.
 
BARR: Yeah, there you go. It's the Sunny Queen 12 eggs from Woolies. They're $8.80 from Coles. They're slightly cheaper at about $8.50. Yeah, that's. I think you. I think you maybe, maybe –
 
PRIME MINISTER: Own brand.
 
BARR: – Mr Albanese got the advantage.
 
RILEY: Kirilly does the shopping.
 
DUTTON: I've got to buy a dozen at a time instead of a half a dozen.
 
RILEY: Exactly.
 
BARR: Yeah, exactly. They've gone up a lot though. You're right. In the last. In the last few months, especially the last year. Okay, a follow up. What three things will be cheaper, first of all, if you stay Prime Minister. What can go down? Because that's what everyone out there is screaming for.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Tell you what, if you're doing a TAFE course, it's zero. Childcare, because of what we're doing on child care. And I'm trying to, and the other measures that we're putting in place to your income taxes, will come down as well.
 
RILEY: In 15 months. Mr Dutton, three things.
 
DUTTON: Well, electricity will come down, gas will come down and groceries will come down
 
RILEY: Pretty quick.
 
BARR: There you go.
 
RILEY: And what about this man? Let's have a look. Elon Musk, a billionaire around 30 times over, taken in to Trump's government, now winding back just months in. Mr Albanese, what comes to mind looking at this man.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Tesla, and a very rich man.
 
RILEY: Mr Dutton.
 
DUTTON: I think evil genius.
 
BARR: Okay. Mr Dutton, have you distanced yourself, do you think, from Mr Trump's style enough?
 
DUTTON: I haven't sought to be anybody other than myself and I believe very strongly that based on my experience working with John Howard very closely, he's been my political mentor and I want to make sure we manage the economy as he did. I want to keep our country safe.
 
RILEY: Will we still have a DOGE? Still have a DOGE? Jacinta Price going to run the DOGE?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Why have you followed so many of the policies, even today saying the, saying that the ABC were part of ‘hate media’?
 
DUTTON: Well, government efficiency. I mean, do you believe in that?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Look, of course we agree in efficiency. What we don't agree with, what we don't agree with is your assistant –
 
DUTTON: Your Trump-lite because you want taxpayers’ money spent as efficiently as we’re suggesting?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Can I finish?
 
DUTTON: Sure.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Is what your Assistant Treasurer, Luke Howarth said, which was that you would have a Department of Government Efficiency based upon Elon Musk's model. He's your Shadow Assistant Treasurer.
 
DUTTON: We've said that given you've spent $425 billion –
 
PRIME MINISTER: And you're going to sack 41,000 public servants.
 
DUTTON: We've said that given you've spent $425 billion extra, which is why people are paying more for their mortgages now, that we're going to take some of the wasteful spending that you've got in the Budget, we have the highest per capita –
 
PRIME MINISTER: We’ve saved $207 billion. We've improved the budget bottom line –
 
DUTTON: You just haven’t, you just haven’t Anthony.
 
PRIME MINISTER: – by $207 billion. We've produced two budget surpluses. The government of which you are a part, delivered zero.
 
RILEY: This started off so nicely.
 
BARR: I know, it was so friendly.
 
RILEY: Let's get back to it.
 
BARR: What comes to mind when you see this gentlemen? Let's have a look. Mr Albanese.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Australia.
 
RILEY: Mr Dutton?
 
DUTTON: Well, a great system and one that we've invested in, that we believe in strongly. But at the moment you're paying about $43 to go and see a doctor and so it should be accompanied by the credit card that you've got to take to the doctors as well.
 
RILEY: Do you have that in your pocket? You're probably thinking he's going to pull it out at some stage. Have you got your credit card there?
 
DUTTON: No, I haven't got it here.
 
PRIME MINISTER: You wanted to abolish bulk billing altogether by having a charge –
 
DUTTON: I wanted to make primary care sustainable.
 
PRIME MINISTER: – By having a charge every time people visit the doctor, would have been no bulk billing.
 
DUTTON: No but your charge now is $43
 
PRIME MINISTER: That was what you did.
 
DUTTON: Your charge is $43.
 
PRIME MINISTER: That's what you did. We're repairing your mess.
 
RILEY: I think you both had policies in the past though that you walked away from. We talked about negative gearing, you've walked away from that. And Mr Dutton's walked away from the 2014 budget. And we know all about that.
 
PRIME MINISTER: But he pretends it didn't happen.
 
RILEY: Okay, we want to listen to a quick sound bite.
 
PRIME MINISTER: That my word is my bond.
 
RILEY: Remember that, Mr Albanese? I do.
 
PRIME MINISTER: I do.
 
RILEY: Yeah. But you broke your word.
 
PRIME MINISTER: I did. I did. I changed my mind because I could not resile from the need to do something to help people because of cost of living pressures. So, what I did was I fronted up, I went along to the National Press Club. I didn't pretend that we hadn't changed our position. I went along, I argued the case and guess what, the Coalition voted for it as well.
 
RILEY: We gave you snaps of that. But you remember the interview? I do.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah.
 
RILEY: I put those arguments to you at that time and I said, why won't you change this? Because all those things you just articulated were real then and they're real now. And you said, because my word is my bond.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Except Mark, that what occurred with global inflation, where inflation hit, here, it peaked at 7.8. Overseas, it peaked –
 
RILEY: Things got worse is your argument is it?
 
PRIME MINISTER: It peaked in double digits. It peaked in double digits. And I couldn't in all conscience, on the 1st of July, get $9,000 for all of us and a whole lot of people who are watching at home not get a single dollar.
 
RILEY: But I put that to you at that time, I put that to you at that time. Mr Dutton, is your word your bond?
 
DUTTON: Yes, it is. And if you're talking about the stage three tax cuts, don't forget it's stage three, because stage one and stage two tax cuts were introduced by a Coalition government and we supported stage three tax cuts. So, the whole idea was to address bracket creep that you spoke of before. Under this Government, people are paying $3,500 extra in tax over the course of the last three years.
 
BARR: Okay –
 
PRIME MINISTER: You voted for the change. So, not only did we change our position, but it went through the Parliament unanimously.
 
RILEY: You changed it, you changed it, okay -
 
BARR: We're talking about your word being your bond. On that point, we want you to listen to something else, Mr Dutton.
 
DUTTON: Well, I've apologised for the decision that we took in relation to work from home.
 
BARR: How did you get that policy so wrong?
 
DUTTON: We said in relation to public servants in Canberra that we wanted to go back to something like what it was before COVID which was about 60 per cent of people at work, still flexibility for a lot of people, and believe very strongly in flexibility in work arrangements. It's down to 20 per cent in Canberra. We have, on a per capita basis, the highest number of public servants in the world. And the Government has increased the number of public servants threefold. The point I was making is that if Australians are out there working their guts out at the moment, an extra job or a second job, they're paying taxes, they expect their money to be spent efficiently. What the Prime Minister did, as he's done with a number of other issues, is twisted and contorted in something that it wasn't. And the point I make was that, yes, the Prime Minister scared, particularly women and others, into believing that we were doing something that we weren't, and I apologise for that.
 
RILEY: Okay. We know the conditions in the public sector become a template for the private sector, though, don't we?
 
PRIME MINISTER: But you said when you announced the policy that people could just job share. That's what you said. And since this, the backflip, a number of your people, senior people, have said that they still support the policy, it was just the wrong time. The truth is that this attack on public servants would then create a precedent for the private sector, which is why people were so concerned that it doesn't understand what modern families do. Just like sacking 41,000 public servants. You had 54,000 consultants at various times during your period in office being paid a lot more than public servants. And you had Robodebt and you had veterans waiting to get their support.
 
RILEY: Alright. We're getting back into the weeds now and we could talk about this all night. I wish we could, frankly, because I think this is really helpful. However, time is closing on us. So, your closing statements. Gentlemen, I've been out there on the streets with you for the past four weeks. I've got to tell I'm sorry, I'm going to be out there next week with you as well. So, I know how hard you're working. The one thing people are saying to me, and I'm sure they're saying to you is where's the inspiration? Where's the hope? Give me some hope. Give me something to look forward to. Your closing statements. One minute. Mr Dutton, you're going first. Give the people some hope.
 
DUTTON: Well, Mark, firstly, thank you to you and Nat and to Anthony as well. I believe we live in the greatest country in the world. I know that many Australians are really doing it tough at the moment. And I don't believe Australians can afford three more years of increased costs of everything. I want to make sure we can deliver support immediately through the 25 cent a litre cut in fuel tax, the $1,200 tax rebate. And I want to make sure that we can transform our energy market, get more gas into the system, bring the wholesale price of gas down by 23 per cent. If we do that, we can bring down the costs across the economy. We can bring inflation down through good economic management. And that's exactly what is required in our country right now. If we make the right decisions now, we can protect our generation and future generations and make our country and our communities safer. And that's exactly what I'm dedicated to doing. So, if people vote for their Liberal or National candidate at this election, we can get our country back on track and we can make sure that we can invest into families, help grow our economy, reduce interest rates and help Australians get through what has been a terrible period.
 
RILEY: Okay, thank you very much, Mr Albanese. People are crying out for hope and inspiration. One minute.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I'm optimistic about Australia's future and what gives me hope is the resilience, the courage, the optimism of the Australian people. We are the greatest country on the planet and we're driven by our people as well as, of course, the natural assets that we enjoy. And I want to back our people through skills and training. That's why we're investing in every school by giving a better and fairer schools funding. That's why we're investing in early childhood education. That's why we're investing in Free TAFE to give people that opportunity to be the best that they can. That's why we're working so hard with the Australian people to bring down inflation. If we get it right, the future is so bright for us because we live in the fastest growing region of the world in human history and our people are our greatest asset, including our multiculturalism, of course, gives us those direct links to the economies of Asia.
 
RILEY: Gentlemen, thank you very much for entering into the spirit of the debate tonight. We've covered a lot of ground, six days to go. Good luck to both of you. Let the best man win, Nat.

ENDS