RAF EPSTEIN, HOST: The Prime Minister of Australia, Anthony Albanese is responding to this as we all are. Good morning, PM.
 
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: Good morning. Good to be with you.
 
EPSTEIN: Do you understand exactly what is happening to Aussie beef? Is it a ban or a tariff?
 
PRIME MINISTER: No, it's a tariff is what we've been advised. But of course, what I did was watch President Trump's statement, went straight to a press conference with an immediate response. But we've been advised by their trade people that it's a ten per cent tariff.
 
EPSTEIN: Is that what allies do to each other? Is this what friends do to each other?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, that's what the United States has done to everyone. And I'll make this point, that no country has received less tariffs than Australia. It's a minimum ten per cent across the board. We regard free and fair trade as being important for the global economy. It's something that's lifted literally hundreds of millions of people out of poverty.
 
EPSTEIN: Why aren't you angry?
 
PRIME MINISTER: It's something that, well there's no point in being emotional about this, Raf. What is important, as Prime Minister of Australia, is that we be considered, calibrated in our response, firm in our response and determined. And that is what we have done. I've announced five different measures that we'll take in response to this. Strengthening our anti-dumping regime, supporting affected sectors to expand our trade relationships with new markets. Establishing an economic resilience program through our National Reconstruction Fund. Encouraging people to buy Australian and establishing a critical mineral strategic reserve.
 
EPSTEIN: Does that mean sort of we need to be okay with it because he's done it to everyone, is that what you're saying?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we disagree with it, but you won't have an impact by reacting, emotionally to it.
 
EPSTEIN: Well, can I challenge you on that PM? Just can I give you an example? Canada hit back hard with words and their own tariffs, right. It has completely upended Canadian politics. It has energised a left wing government. It can have a significant impact on the relationship and on politics. So, it's not necessarily the wrong thing to do to bark back more loudly. Isn't Canada an example?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Canada was singled out for this act of economic self harm. Importantly, if you impose tariffs, which is an option of course for Australia, given we regard this as a breach of our Free Trade Agreement, what that does is impose higher costs for Australian consumers. The whole point of this is that it's an act of economic self harm. What this will do is impose higher costs for Americans. Purchasing goods from around the world with a tariff at a minimum level of ten per cent.
 
EPSTEIN: Will you tell Donald Trump that he's hurting the people who vote for him?
 
PRIME MINISTER: I indicated very clearly in the discussions that I've had with President Trump that we regard tariffs as not being in the interests of the United States.
 
EPSTEIN: And two weeks ago I asked you, ‘do you trust Donald Trump?’ And you, you didn't mock me, but you sort of said, ‘well what sort of question is that?’ Like, it's a really important question, isn't it? Like, do you trust him?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, he got elected with this platform, Raf. It's not one I agree with, but he got elected on it. He has said that he would do this, he has done this. We'll wait and see what the impact is, not just for the United States’ relations with the world, but importantly as well with its own markets. The United States economy will be impacted negatively by this. I firmly believe that that is the case. And we know that this is a cost on American consumers, not as some of the rhetoric and understanding that’s there in the United States suggests, that somehow this imposes a cost on other nations. This is an act of economic self harm. We continue to say that, argue that and put our case forward.
 
EPSTEIN: Anthony Albanese is on the line, the Prime Minister. We spoke to Peter Dutton, the Opposition Leader, yesterday. Keep saying it with me, everybody. Victoria is the swing state. If you've got a question for the PM, 1300 222 774 is the phone number. PM, I got a lot of texts along these lines, Alex saying from Ferntree Gully, ‘Albo should say the rent for Pine Gap is going up to $34 billion.’ So, I think there are some people who want to be angry, but just more broadly –
 
PRIME MINISTER: Sure, I understand that, but my job is to engage diplomatically, engaged in a sober, mature, calibrated way that is clearly in Australia's national interest.
 
EPSTEIN: But they're not sober and calibrated. That's the issue, is like how do we know, say, we'll get the submarines? The President's got to approve the submarines. I know it's past Donald Trump's presidency, but doesn't it put those things into question?
 
PRIME MINISTER: No, what this does is that President Trump, who has said that he supports the AUKUS arrangements, as do members of Congress, Senators across the political divide in the United States, both Democrat and Republican. What this is, is something that is being imposed on every country in the world. Rather bizarrely I think, Norfolk Island somehow has been hit with 29 per cent tariff rather than 10 per cent. Last time I looked, Norfolk Island was a part of Australia, but that, having been said was somewhat unexpected and a bit strange.
 
EPSTEIN: Can I drag the –
 
PRIME MINISTER: This is a decision of the Trump administration. It's one that we made very clear we disagree with. We put propositions to the Trump administration, as I'm sure did other nations. They are determined to go down this road. I think very clearly this will harm the US economy and will have an impact on the global economy. And I'll make this point Raf. It's not, what we are most concerned about isn't just the direct impact on Australia. Because the United States is the largest economy in the world, what we're concerned about here is this triggering lower global economic growth and lower global economic activity therefore and that having a contractionary impact on the global economy. And as a trading nation where one in four of our jobs depends upon international trade, that's why we have prepared by making our economy more resilient.
 
EPSTEIN. Donald Trump's bad for Australian jobs, isn't he?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I think this is not a decision that is consistent with growing the global economy. What we have done is to deepen our economic engagement with north east Asia, our traditional partners Japan and Korea, in south east Asia and India –
 
EPSTEIN. So just before you broaden out there PM, if I can, not that those things aren't important PM, I just want to try to let some of the listeners, we've got a few emails and calls, so if I can. And while we're on the relationship with America, Alan's called from Diggers Rest. Thank you for agreeing to take some of the calls by the way. Alan, what did you want to ask or say?
 
CALLER: Prime Minister –
 
PRIME MINISTER: G’day Alan.
 
CALLER: A few years ago we upset our French colleagues by cancelling a submarine contract. Why don't we cancel the US submarine contract and go back to France again? If that means scrapping AUKUS as well, then so be it.
 
EPSTEIN: PM?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Because we believe that AUKUS is in the interest of defending our nation. We think it's in Australia's interest. And whilst we regard this as an act of self harm by the United States when it comes to their economy, what I'm not prepared to do is do anything that is not in Australia's interests.
 
EPSTEIN: It's 17 minutes past nine. If we can shift to some of the election issues. Prime Minister, we've got tens of thousands of questions coming in via the ABC YourSay program that we do at each election. You know about all the calls and texts and emails we get. Keith emailed our show yesterday. I just wanted to read this to you and get your response. ‘The Albo tax cut means nothing to a pensioner. Cutting the petrol excise saves me at least $10 per week. My Meals on Wheels service, discounted until today has risen from $5 per day to $12.50 per day immediately. So much for reducing my cost of living.’ So what would you say to Keith?
 
PRIME MINISTER: What I'd say to Keith is we understand that pensioners are doing it tough. That's why we're concerned about Peter Dutton's foreshadowing of $350 billion that he says has been wasteful expenditure. That's included the indexation of pensions. We recognise if you're not working, obviously you aren't benefiting from tax cuts, but you do benefit from our commitment to increase pensions. You do benefit as well if, Keith, I think, was the author.
 
EPSTEIN: Yes, Keith.
 
PRIME MINISTER: He'll benefit from taking down the cost of pharmaceuticals to a maximum of $25 for everyone. But if you're a pensioner, we've frozen the cost at just $7.70 in the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme.
 
EPSTEIN: But he's really attracted by the fuel tax cut that Peter Dutton's offering.
 
PRIME MINISTER: For the rest of that decade. That short term temporary measure, that will increase the deficit in the short term, that potentially has as well an inflationary impact and will disappear. It will disappear after a year and what we will be left with is no cost of living support for people. Keith would have benefited as well from the $300 of energy bill relief. That $300 adds up to the third amount –
 
EPSTEIN: Well, that's also short term, right, the energy rebate that stops at the end of the year.
 
PRIME MINISTER: It is the third time that we have delivered energy bill relief for Keith. $300 for the first amount in December 2022, followed up by another $300 in last year's Budget, followed up by another $150. We've delivered, that's a total of $750 benefit for Keith. Some of that in the past, but that continuing to the end of the year. But a Labor Government will always be better for pensioners than a Coalition that never ever indexed the pension to the higher amount as well of wage growth, which is what we did when we were last in government.
 
EPSTEIN: Anthony Albanese is on the phone, the Prime Minister of Australia. He is in Melbourne today. Peter Dutton was also in Melbourne yesterday when we had a chat to the Opposition Leader. Steve's in Rye, Stephen, I think in Rye with a query. What did you want to ask?
 
CALLER: Well, I have a small niche manufacturing business in Melbourne. We export to Europe and into the States. I'm annoyed because everybody keeps talking about a Free Trade Agreement. My fabrics have had ten per cent tariff on them for the last 30 years.
 
EPSTEIN: Going into where, Stephen?
 
CALLER: Going into the US. So, you know, every time I hear free trade agreement between the US and Australia, I go, well that's rubbish. And then now I want to know, is my fabric going to get, is it now going to be 20 per cent on top or will it stay as the ten per cent?
 
EPSTEIN: Well, that's a good question, Stephen. PM, do you know, fabric?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks very much Stephen, well, the indication is that just a minimum of ten per cent, that was the advice that we've been given by the US Trade Department.
 
EPSTEIN. So, not an extra ten per cent for him.
 
PRIME MINISTER: That's correct. That's the advice that we've been given by the United States. But I make this point as well. We're opening up new markets. That is what we're determined to do. The Southeast Asia Economic Strategy. India has overtaken, in our time in Government, because of the work that we've done, has overtaken the United States as a destination for our exports. That's been really important. We're living in the fastest growing region of the world in human history, is just to our north. Now we're determined to take advantage of that.
 
EPSTEIN: Okay, and just on the tariff issues, you keep on saying, we've been advised. Is it a shifting situation? Is this an opening negotiation position from Donald Trump? Is it set in stone and they'll send you the spreadsheet, or is it up for discussion?
 
PRIME MINISTER: No, look, you saw the announcement potentially this morning as well, but we got advice. We were aware of where they were headed in advance.
 
EPSTEIN: Right.
 
PRIME MINISTER: We have prepared in advance. We've actually been preparing as well, obviously, since President Trump was elected last year on this platform. So, we've been putting in place measures to ensure that Australia's national interest was protected as much as possible. But this has not come as a surprise.
 
EPSTEIN: I was just curious about whether or not it's an ambit claim. Just a few quick issues –
 
PRIME MINISTER: But you'd be aware that some of what the US administration, the current administration, has done, has not been foreshadowed. And you would be aware of that.
 
EPSTEIN: Just before you go, there's a lot of people noticing what's going on in the campaign so far. A lot of people, the Canberra Press Gallery would say you've had a good week. You had a terrible year last year. Do you think you lost your mojo last year?
 
PRIME MINISTER: No.
 
EPSTEIN. So, what are they talking about if they think that you sort of wasn't quite working last year?
 
PRIME MINISTER: I don’t know. I'm not part of the press gallery group chat.
 
EPSTEIN: You talk to them from time to time. You know who they are.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Look, we have been a determined government. We've governed in what have been turbulent economic times. The largest energy crisis since the 1970s. We have seen countries around the world with double digit inflation, some of them with double digit unemployment at the same time. Across the ditch, New Zealand is in recession. What we have managed to do is negotiate our way through those turbulent economic waters, keep our eye on the horizon. We now have inflation falling from six down to 2.4. We have unemployment being low. We have wages that have grown five quarters in a row. We have interest rates that started to rise before we came to government, now they've started to fall. We've provided tax cuts for every Australian taxpayer and cost of living relief whilst getting that downward pressure on inflation. We have, as well, a really positive agenda going forward. I started to make the agenda for the second term very clear way back in October with our 20 per cent cut to student debt, with our making free TAFE permanent, with our Three Day Guarantee for childcare, with our childcare infrastructure investment, with the tax cuts for every taxpayer that are a top up, so that every Australian will get a tax cut, an average tax cut there of $2,500 that they're worth. So, we want Australians to earn more, keep more of what they earn. Peter Dutton wants to cut everything except for people's taxes. They are not ready as an alternative government. That is becoming clearer and clearer and in discussions I've had with you, Raf, you'd be aware that I was always of the view that when people focus on what the alternative, what the choice is in this election, going forward with a positive agenda or going backwards to the chaos, the leftovers of the Morrison government, they would choose to vote Labor and that's what I hope on the 3rd of May.
 
EPSTEIN: Thank you for joining us. Hopefully we'll get into the studio before the end of the campaign.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Thanks, Raf.
 
EPSTEIN: Thanks a lot. Anthony Albanese, the Prime Minister.

ENDS