HOST: It is Nathan, Nat and Shaun this morning. We're down a few but we do have Shaun McManus here. Rove McManus is with us as well and we're joined in the studio by Prime Minister Anthony Albanese.
 
HOST: Well, we're one short, so we needed our Albo to come off the bench and he's done that perfectly.
 
ANTHONY ALBANESE, PRIME MINISTER: It's good to be here for the McManus morning show.
 
HOST: There we go.
 
HOST: We could do. All three of us could do this on a regular basis.
 
PRIME MINISTER: We could.
 
HOST: How would that work?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I'm here pretty regularly,
 
HOST: You are.
 
HOST: It seems so.
 
PRIME MINISTER: This is visit number 30 to the West. I said I'd come 10 times a year and I'm ahead of my KPI.
 
HOST: Well, you are Albo. You actually asked me where's a good coffee place and you would know more than me about the coffees around here because you're here more often, walking around the streets.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, it's pretty good. Subiaco is a pretty good place to have the studio. Very wise decision, whoever made that.
 
HOST: Yeah, that's good, that's good. How's it feel now we're finally up and running? It felt like this was, it was being teased for so long. Did you have an actual date in your head of when you wanted this to finally happen? But there was a lot of other stuff that got in the way. State election here. There's obviously flooding in Queensland. Are you happy that you're actually up and running?
 
PRIME MINISTER: I am very, very happy that we're off and running but you can go back to one of my, you know, probably 60 interviews on this program over the last three years and I've always said that governments should serve their full term. Three years is too short. So, I'm very comfortable with us handing down the Budget. It’s given us the opportunity to say that we're committed to more tax cuts and more energy bill relief and to put in place the Medicare support that we have, to strengthen Medicare. So, I'm very happy that we're in the campaign, though, because I'm sick of being asked – every time I was in the studio, I was asked “when's the election?” And I'd say three years is too short. May to May. And no one would believe me. Now they do.
 
HOST: Absolutely. Albo, I'm wondering about your fitness, your campaigning fitness, because over the next 33 days, mate, I dare say you won't be getting too much sleep. So, how have you gone about getting yourself ready for the 33 days?
 
PRIME MINISTER: You do it by going hard from day one, essentially.
 
HOST: Really?
 
PRIME MINISTER: I've, since January 6 this year -
 
HOST: Have you watched your diet? Have you watched what you're drinking?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Oh absolutely.
 
HOST: Here we go. Big questions. Thought you'd get the easy ones, softball here. No.
 
PRIME MINISTER: No, no, not at all.
 
HOST: Two McManus’, I’m gonna waltz this one. What are you eating?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I'm eating healthily when I can. You can't always, of course, the odd burger doesn't heed.
 
HOST: Okay. Now be honest, they put you out there. There's always like, here, eat a meat pie, pour a beer. Like, the pressure is on to not like, screw up. Like hot dogs. What's the no-go foods for photo ops? Hot dogs would be one.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah. Sausage on a roll never looks good, mate. And make sure you don't eat it from the middle either. That's an error one of my predecessors made –

HOST: Raw onions. No to raw onions?
 
PRIME MINISTER: No, not good, not good. But they always look for you to spill something. It's a bit like – I had, from time to time, I've had kick to kick with Joel Selwood one day at the, at the cattery at Cardinia Park. And we were kick to kick and it was like 15 metres away, then 20 metres away, then 25 metres away. And I hadn't dropped one and they were just waiting. And I could have taken 50 marks, but it wouldn't have mattered, the one I dropped would have been what they showed. So, I was like, that's enough, mate. That’s enough.
 
HOST: Look, you've never tackled a small child, so that's something.
 
PRIME MINISTER: That is true. No squishing from this Prime Minister.
 
HOST: No squishing at all.
 
PRIME MINISTER: That was just a couple of days before the last campaign. And my team told me about that, and I was like, nah, it can't be that bad. And then I looked at it, I was like, yep, it's worse.
 
HOST: Okay, now in reality, when you're going through it, how much are you being kept up to date with what's happening on the other side, to what's happening with you? I mean, we all get told don't read the comments, but you kind of need to as part of this?
 
PRIME MINISTER: No, you don't need to read the comments ever. Comments in social media can be pretty unkind. And you got to remember that that's not representative. So, you just have to focus on what we need to do.
 
HOST: But are you being kept up to date with what's happening with each of you on your publicity trails?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Look a little bit, but –
 
HOST: Like, oh, he went to a bakery, I'm going to a bakery!
 
PRIME MINISTER: No, I by and large run my own race. We have a really clear agenda that we want to emphasise. Today we're at Midland Hospital, $350 million announcement between us and the State Government. I'll be there with the Premier. And that's about increased numbers of operating theatres, increased assets there so that people get looked after, get the health care that they need. And that's important to keep that focus on the difference in this election campaign, the choice which is there. And our choice of strengthening Medicare, making sure we have that cost of living relief, making sure we build a stronger Australia with a future made in Australia. Roger Cook just ran a campaign about a future made in WA. We're in sync in terms of our agenda. And you can't be knocked off course by any particular media outlet or by the other side. You have to put what your positive agenda is, I think is really important.
 
HOST: Albo, one of the things I want to talk to you about, and I get messages from friends all the time who’ve got small business. They want to know if you understand the trials and tribulations they're going through, being from the Labor side of things. Of course, they probably lean towards Liberal. And also any plans that you have for small businesses going forward in these uncertain times.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Absolutely. Well, small businesses should be backing Labor in this campaign. The Coalition will always stand for very, very big business. The relationship that Peter Dutton has with Gina Rinehart – are besties here in the West. Not a small business. Give you the big tip. What we're doing is providing energy bill relief for small business. We did that again and again. We're providing - some more announcements will be coming in the next couple of weeks. But we back small business. There are more small businesses in Australia today than there have ever been ever before. And we know that this is a difficult time with the biggest energy crisis since the 1970s
 
HOST: For sure.
 
PRIME MINISTER: But we're dealing with that and we're making sure that small business gets looked after. One of the reasons why we announced the crackdown on price gouging by the big supermarkets yesterday was to support small business to compete because it's small businesses, your local corner shop, that is a part of that local community. Pharmacies are small businesses. We're cutting the price of medicines to just $25. That's the same price they were in 2004
 
HOST: Now, it was a big announcement yesterday about holding the big chains accountable for price gouging. Making it illegal, I believe, was what you were saying. So, how do you police that? Who's in charge of then making sure that that's seen through. Cause I think a lot of us would have that concern.
 
PRIME MINISTER: You police that through the ACCC, the competition tribunal. Essentially, you give them the power to make sure that price gouging is illegal. There are examples internationally in the European Union, in the UK, in 30 of the US states, where price gouging is illegal. And what you do is you make sure you put in the law. We'll introduce legislation by the end of the year. We'll have a taskforce established of the Treasury, the ACCC and consumer groups. And it builds on what we've done already. We've outlawed things like shrinkflation. We're making sure that there's greater transparency there. We've made sure there's greater accountability as well, to stop your local supermarket putting prices up by a dollar, decreasing it by 50 cents and pretending it's a special. So, we've done a range of measures already, but we are going to make price gouging explicitly illegal in the law, in order to send that message as well.
 
HOST: So, does that come from – say, like the farmers right. They've got their, got their meat that they're trying to sell and then the supermarket, supermarkets pay a certain price and then they pass it on to us and they really jack it up sometimes. Is that finding the difference between the two to realise what the real price is?
 
PRIME MINISTER: That's right. So, I got asked yesterday and I used a colloquialism about, how do you know it's price gouging?
 
HOST: Yes.
 
PRIME MINISTER: It’s when supermarkets are taking the piss out of their customers.
 
HOST: Yeah.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Customers know. And so we will take action. We'll make sure that the law's defined in a way that's watertight. We don't want to use those laws. What you want to do is to make sure that that law ensures that supermarkets all do the right thing.
 
HOST: Now, as much as we're obviously campaigning for the country and you're looking at policies that affect us here, a very big looming issue is our relationship with the US. We have a President there that I'm allowed to say is a, is a pretty scary dude to be dealing with, I would think. How much of that is going to factor into who gets this job? Who has the best relationship with the bully in the White House?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, it's a matter of a relationship, dealing with people constructively. And I do that. I deal with world leaders and have done so very effectively over three years, treating people with respect, regardless of where they come from on the political spectrum. And I've had two positive discussions with the President that are constructive. But what I won't do is compromise Australia's national interests. So, I've said, for example, on the Pharmaceutical Benefits Scheme, it's not up for negotiation. It's part of who we are. Like our Medicare card being the most important thing for us in terms of health care. The PBS is something that was created by a Labor Government under Curtin and Chifley, of course, a great West Australian, and it's something that we'll defend. So, I know that and people follow the play. The United States would like for its interests to be served above other countries and that's not surprising. My job is to stand up for Australia's national interests and that's what I'll do.
 
HOST: So, when we talk price gouging locally, what about tariffs coming in from the states and how that then gets taken on board by Australian taxpayers?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, no, well, it's the reverse, of course. What tariffs have done, including those imposed by the United States, has put a higher cost for US consumers. Tariffs are an act of self harm, which is why I haven't said, oh well, we'll respond by doing the same thing because that would increase the price for Australian consumers. So, it's a matter of being sensible here, dealing in a conscious way. We have a great relationship with the United States and it's not just a relationship between leaders, it's a relationship between peoples. Two great democracies. We respect the outcome of elections, and we respect President Trump and the position which is there. But we'll deal with him standing up for Australia's national interest as well.
 
HOST: Now, Roger Cook got voted in as Premier here calling the US Vice President a knob. Have you thought of that as a strategy?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, I'll allow Roger's comments to be defended by Roger. I did note that he did that and he did have a discussion with me about that. Look, my job, I have to deal with –
 
HOST: Yeah that would have come up in the feed, in the, at the end of day press briefing surely. Did you hear what happened today? Look, he didn't tackle a kid, but he did call that guy a knob.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, people will have their own views and have a right to express them. My job as Prime Minister is to be respectful to leaders and that's what I will continue to do. And we've been very effective. When I came to this job, our relationship with France was diabolical.
 
HOST: Yes, sure.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Our relationship with the United States was bad too, because they got told that France had no problems with the deal. The relationship with The Pacific and ASEAN was diabolical. Like, you need the credibility to open the door to international relationships in our region, is taking climate change seriously. Scott Morrison didn't. There was major pushback from countries in the region. We've repaired all of that. Our relationship with Indonesia has never been better, our relationship with PNG. Here in the West, we have repaired the relationship so that all those exports are going back into China. I've been to Geraldton, talking to –
 
HOST: The crayfish.
 
PRIME MINISTER: The crayfish are back, more than they were before. There's been extraordinary resumption of trade there. Wine, grains, of course, iron ore. All of that, making a difference, because it's about Australian jobs. One in four of our jobs is dependent upon exports. Almost one in four of those exports goes to one country. We need to diversify that. The relationship with India is so important and that's why the West can't be an add on something that's an afterthought. This economy and this state is driving our nation. You are particularly well positioned for the relationship up into Indonesia and into India. And that's why the visits here aren't just token. They're about making sure that we back this state. And I back WA.
 
HOST: Albo, you just mentioned earlier on, but one of the things the opposition has talked about is the increase in public servants and the cost to the government, the cost to every person out there. So, plus 30,000 people since you've been in office.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Thank you for raising that.
 
HOST: Okay, give us a rundown of why that's a good thing and it's not costing us.
 
PRIME MINISTER: I'll give you one example of cost, Veterans' Affairs. When we came to office, there were 42,000 men and women who had served us in uniform who were entitled to payments and support that weren't getting them. That was the queue. Many of them. There were people who passed away waiting to get the entitlements that they deserved, that they'd earned serving our country. The additional payments that we had to make in Veterans affairs, the backlog, was $13 billion. $13 billion was owed to these people. That queue has gone. The National Emergency Management Agency that looked after people up in Fitzroy Crossing, when you had that incredible disaster and flooding and impact there as well, that agency didn't exist. We now have emergency generators. We have a national stockpile of sandbags that is helping people in Queensland. I was in Hervey Bay, a little town on the coast of Queensland there, near Fraser Island, last week, or, yeah, the week before last - days flowing on each other.
 
HOST: Oh, I’m sure.
 
PRIME MINISTER: There were 15 public servants working out of a caravan, making sure that those victims of the floods were getting the money, the entitlements they had in order to get by and get the essentials in life. He's talking about sacking 41,000 public servants. There were more than 50,000 consultants employed, being paid more than the public servants, all offline. It was just, it was a disaster. Robodebt. People died because of Robodebt. Because you didn't have public servants. You had an automated system sending people bills that they didn't owe. People lost their lives, literally, because of that. Now this guy wants to rip the guts out of public servants. Pretends they're all in Canberra. No, they're not. They're here in Perth, they're in Geraldton, they're in Port Hedland, they're in Karratha, they're in Kalgoorlie, they're in Albany. They're right around this country serving people. And guess what? If you work for one of the big four accountancy firms, you get paid more than the average public servant. So, I've met so many people during the period, the end of that Coalition Government, who I'd run into them and say, “oh, are you still with the Department of Infrastructure?” Or one of the departments you see. “Oh, no, now I work for ‘company’.” I'd say they're the only big four. “Oh, you enjoy it?” “Oh, yeah. I get paid twice as much and work half the time” and send the bill to the taxpayer. That doesn't make sense. You know, we need to be efficient and we are efficient, but being efficient isn't making sure that Veterans don't get payments and that people – the current the flood issue in Queensland - most people have got their payments within 24 hours. That's made an enormous difference to people going through a really tough time.
 
HOST: Now, It's seems like it's a relatively short amount of time between elections here.
 
PRIME MINISTER: It's too short.
 
HOST: It does feel that way. But for you, have you noticed even this time round, the way of campaigning is different? It seems, I think we've been very influenced by what's happening overseas, especially in the US, that sometimes it's not so much policy driven as what you promise and maybe don't need to deliver, and it's the cult of personality and things like that. Have you noticed a difference in campaigning this time around for you?
 
PRIME MINISTER: I'll tell you, the big difference is the nature of media. So, I did a podcast yesterday. I landed in Perth.
 
HOST: Did you do a podcast?
 
HOST: You’ve done a few, haven't you?
 
HOST: You've done a podcast?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Another one. Another one. I did one in a pub here, just the pub was closed, mind you, for us, and that's very different. So, I've done, I think, probably 10 podcasts so far this year, and some of them can go off.
 
HOST: Do you have to be careful about what you're saying? Because if you go on for an hour and a half in podcasts and you're just discussing everything, life and things you're really interested in, you have to be wary of what you're giving up.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Oh, look, you. You of course are always conscious, but I try to be me. I mean, how many times have I been in this studio?
 
HOST: A million, yeah.
 
HOST: Thirty apparently, is what I’ve heard.
 
PRIME MINISTER: We just chat. And I think you've got to be you got to be real.
 
HOST: Yeah. And, well, that's a big part of it. We've talked about small business and things like that. We've got a lot of new voters coming in where this will be their first election. What do you have for some of the Gen Z voters that are coming in this time around?
 
PRIME MINISTER: We will cancel 20% of their student debt, is the big thing that comes back to me when people say that. That they recognise that that will make a difference to them. We've already cut $3 billion off student debt by changing the way the indexation happens, so it's always the lower amount, not the higher amount. So, we did that, and one of the things we're doing this election campaign is to build on the foundations that we've done our first term. So, in student debt. We did $3 billion off. Now we're going to put 20% off student debt. That will make an enormous difference for them. We had energy bill relief. We're going to have more energy bill relief. We had tax cuts for every taxpayer, not just some, 14 million of them. So, we're going to have more tax cuts for every taxpayer, not just some. In Medicare, we had the tripling of the bulk billing incentive for concession card holders. That's 11 million people, pensioners, etc. That led to bulk billing rates go to 90% and we're going to extend that to all 27 million Australians that will lift bulk billing rates up to 90% over a period of time. As well our Urgent Care Clinics, we've got eight here in WA that are open. We're going to open another six. So, we're building on the foundations that we have laid. We don't want that to be disrupted, and it's all at risk at this election is part of our message. We don't need to do what my opponent is saying overtly. He wants to go back, is his slogan. Well, we don't need to go back to the chaos of I'm not even going to raise kids being squished on soccer fields. But the multiple ministries when, you know, Scott Morrison was living with Josh Frydenberg, was also the Treasurer, sworn himself in, and no one knew about it. It was chaos and dysfunctional, the Former Government, the sort of chaos with Veterans Affairs, people waiting for their payments. The climate policy was all over the shop. They had 23 energy policies and didn't nail one. You know, we need to keep going forward in a constructive way, and that's what I'm determined to do.
 
HOST: Now on that, let's talk about the reality of a win and what it would take to get a majority government and polls be what they might be. It's going to be tough for either side to win it outright without a little bit of help from independents here and there. What do you think that says about where voters sit at the moment with the two party system?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, there's no doubt that we –
 
HOST: And what can you say to them?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, we live in a more fragmented society. I mean, I came out of the womb –
 
HOST: You what?
 
PRIME MINISTER: With three great faiths –
 
HOST: Alright.
 
PRIME MINISTER: The Labor Party, Catholic Church and South Sydney Rugby League Football Club. That order, that is, that is the way that it is. And for different generations, that was, yeah, it's a different world now. Trade union membership was up above 50%, it's certainly not now. You had teams and it was much more class based. It's a different society now. We have to recognise that, and that's reflected in the more diverse and fragmented political system that there is as well. But I'm certainly aiming for a majority government. We have 78 seats, before the last election people said we couldn't form a majority. I am confident that we can. Here in the West, the people that we elected, the four seats that we won, are all amazing. And there's new candidates. I'll be with Trish Cook this morning at Bullwinkel. She's a ripper. She's a - nothing says WA like a nurse who used to work on an offshore oil rig.
 
HOST: Absolutely.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Nothing says WA like that. And you know, we've got Zaneta Mascarenhas just over the river, the Member for Swan. She is a former engineer who worked in Kalgoorlie and lived in Kalgoorlie. She's been amazing. Tracey Roberts, Former Mayor and there in the in the north. She's incredible. She's represented her local community for a couple of decades. She's much loved there. And Sam Lim, I mean, Sam Lim speaks 10 languages or 11, if you count dolphin.
 
HOST: Dolphin trainer.
 
PRIME MINISTER: A former dolphin trainer.
 
HOST: I didn’t know if that was real.
 
PRIME MINISTER: It’s real.
 
HOST: Everyone says they’re a dolphin trainer.
 
HOST: Have you heard him speak dolphin?
 
PRIME MINISTER: I have, but he only does it in private.
 
HOST: Yeah, sure.
 
PRIME MINISTER: And only, you know, late at night. He just, sometimes, just segues seamlessly into dolphin.
 
HOST: And you see him swim in a pool and he just sort of shimmy’s backwards. It’s incredible.
 
PRIME MINISTER: He's a former WA Police Officer of the Year. He's just an extraordinary advocate for his local community. They're the four new members, and we're blessed. Sometimes people win a seat that they're not expected to win, and they're okay. But they are all outstanding. Tania Lawrence, who I'll be with today, again in Midland, like she's just a cracker, such a strong advocate for that area, up in the hills. And so I'm really confident that we can not only hold those seats, but hopefully Trish Cook to join them. And who knows, there's other opportunities around as well. No one thought Roger Cook would win by such a large amount. I did, yeah, because I know Roger. I've known him for, since I’m showing both our age here, I've known him for 40 years, and he is such a great, determined advocate for this state. And I want to keep working with him.
 
HOST: Now we do have to let you go, you've got probably a tonne of podcasts to do. Before we do –
 
HOST: It feels like a podcast as well.
 
PRIME MINISTER: I got this. We could, if we keep going, we could turn this. We could turn this into a podcast. This is it.
 
HOST: We’ve got a sports segment coming up, and I know that would be right up your alley.

PRIME MINISTER: You know, I haven't – well, last time I was in here, I just joined in.
 
HOST: And we’ll have heaps of great memories too, eventually, as well.
 
HOST: Oh, you had Jeremy McGovern in –
 
HOST: Is this reminiscing hour? What’s happening?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, I took over the AFL segment, a Sydneysider who can talk footy
 
HOST: That would never happen on The Project.
 
HOST: So, let's say May 3rd goes the way you want, and you're, you're back in the big chair at Kirribilli, at The Lodge –
 
PRIME MINISTER: At The Lodge. My opponent this morning, in an act that I thought showed a fair bit of hubris, has declared that he will live in Kirribilli, not The Lodge. The Prime Minister's residence is, of course, The Lodge.
 
HOST: He knows.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Not Kirribilli.
 
HOST: But let's say it all goes your way. So, May 4th, how are you celebrating when you take into account that May 4th is Star Wars Day? May the fourth be with you. How are you going to celebrate and will or it will not involve a lightsaber.
 
PRIME MINISTER: You know what I was so disappointed by? Was that May the fourth wasn't a Saturday.
 
HOST: I know, right. Of course.
 
PRIME MINISTER: That would have been, I would have declared, that that was election day three years in advance. How good would that have been? I reckon May the fourth. I will go in my electorate, probably have a cup coffee. I might break what's been with only a couple of exceptions, a teetotaling period since January 1, at some stage. Maybe after 12.
 
HOST: Yeah, of course.
 
HOST: You’ll wait ‘til noon?
 
PRIME MINISTER: And then I reckon, given it's May the Fourth, you got to watch the first three movies. Oh, here we go. This is a very controversial take. How do you watch it? What order?
 
PRIME MINISTER: In the order they were made.
 
HOST: There we go.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Always.
 
HOST: So New Hope, Empire Strikes Back, Return of the Jedi?
 
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah.
 
HOST: But don't watch the remastered version. I've tried to watch it in order with my daughter, as canon would suggest, exactly like you say. You get to the end of Return of the Jedi, where we see the Force ghosts, and we're meant to see old man, Darth Vader, with his helmet off. Instead, we get young Anakin. And my daughter's like, “who's that guy?” Hayden Christensen. She's like, “I don't know who he is” because we haven't seen the others yet.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Yeah, no. It’s wrong. Fix that.
 
HOST: When your Prime Minister again, fix the whole [inaudible].
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, the difference –
 
HOST: The big issues.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Well, to give a counterfactual here. My son, I've made him watch Godfather I, II and III, in order, not on one time.
 
HOST: Good God.

PRIME MINISTER: Godfather III is really underestimated.
 
HOST: You think so?
 
PRIME MINISTER: I think it is. You've got to, if you watch the three movies –
 
HOST: Yep, in order.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Over a week, in order. You’ve got to watch it in order.
 
HOST: Carve out some time.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Otherwise, you’ll be worried about what happened. You’ve got to carve out some time. And I did that quite a few years ago now. And you know he liked it.
 
HOST: Well, Prime Minister, it's a long campaign road ahead. Best of luck with it all, and may the force be with you.
 
PRIME MINISTER: Thank you so much.
 
HOST: Good on you, Albo. Thanks for coming in.