SUBJECTS: Religious discrimination legislation; desperate attacks from the Government; governing for the whole country; the Prime Minister always seeking to divide; record as a government minister; policy agenda; Peter Dutton attempting to misuse the issue of national security; Quadrilateral Security Dialogue; Ukraine.
 
KIERAN GILBERT, HOST: I sat down with the Labor Leader in the Sydney seat of Reid. It’s held by the Liberal Party on a margin of just 3.2 per cent and is one Labor are fiercely targeting at this year’s Federal election with its candidate, Sally Sitou. I discussed a range of issues, including the debate around religious discrimination and that bill, which has now been shelved in the Federal Parliament. The local member, Fiona Martin, the member for Reid. She was one of the Liberals that crossed the floor and voted with you on the Sex Discrimination Act and the religious discrimination issue. The interesting thing is, though, in parts of this seat, that religious issue and the rights for those of faith would have resonated strongly at the last election, would it not? There is quite a constituency here of devout people. That was something on your mind this week as well, wasn't it, in terms of trying to navigate this issue and not being seen by Scott Morrison as the person that knocked it off?
 
ANTHONY ALBANESE, LEADER OF THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY: Well, the point is, Kieran, that you can defend extending anti-discrimination laws to people of faith based upon their religion without taking away the rights and weakening anti-discrimination provisions against other sections of society. And the problem with this original legislation was that it alienated not just people in the gay and lesbian community, people concerned about issues relating to gender identity for students, they alienated people with disabilities, the Council on the Ageing. It was flawed legislation. But the amendment that was carried was consistent with what Scott Morrison said last year and what he put to me in writing.
 
GILBERT: So you're not vulnerable in your mind to him saying you're the one that knocked this off, essentially?
 
ALBANESE: Well, he's the one that that has removed this legislation. The legislation was amended to reflect what he said should happen. And he, as a result of the outcome on Thursday morning, whereby he couldn't get his unamended legislation through the Parliament, has thrown the whole thing out. He actually voted, the Liberal Government voted against their own legislation on the floor of Parliament. Something that I haven't seen in my time and something that probably hasn't happened since Federation.
 
GILBERT: They're trying to put to you comments that you've made in the past, things like death taxes and that sort of thing. Now, for those who might not follow this as closely as I do, and others around the Parliament, are you worried that some of this might stick? People hear things you've said in the past and think, ‘Is that the real Anthony Albanese’?
 
ALBANESE: I think what it shows is how desperate they are. When you've got people bringing up comments out of context from more than 30 years ago and more than nine prime ministers ago. What it will confirm is my record as a minister in a government and Leader of the House, a former Deputy Prime Minister, a former Acting Prime Minister, that I have a record where they've got no problem with, they haven't been able to attack anything I've done in 25 years in the national Parliament with two decades as a front bencher with senior portfolios.
 
GILBERT: But you talk about, you know, this being from a long time ago. Some things you've said, like 2012, where you said, ‘I fight Tories, that's what I do’. I put that to you in the context of saying, you're ahead in the polls, if you win, how are you going, because a lot of people might identify as Tories, as Liberals, but is your mindset ‘I still fight Tories’ if you become prime minister?
 
ALBANESE: You know, Kieran, that that was in the context of the Labor Party engaging in infighting in 2012.
 
GILBERT: So what’s your mindset now?
 
ALBANESE: That was the context there, whereby Labor was fighting itself. And what I was saying was we shouldn't be behaving in that way. And you know what? We're getting a reminder of the consequences of that. As a result, we weren't successful in 2013. The people of Australia said, ‘They need time in opposition to get their act together’. And I’ll tell you what, this Government, which is riven by disunity, dysfunction and dishonesty, need time in opposition to get their act together.
 
GILBERT: I want to talk about your mindset though. Because you’re, as I said, the polls say you're going to be prime minister in three months. What's your mindset towards people who vote for Liberals or might say, ‘I'm a Tory’? How would you govern for them?
 
ALBANESE: My mindset is very clear, Kieran. I want to govern for the whole country. I want to bring people together and unite the country. My problem with the Prime Minister is he's always seeking to divide and that's what he did this week on this legislation that he brought forward. It was seeking division rather than bringing people together, rather than saying we want to remove discrimination against everybody, and diversity is one of the strengths of Australian society. And if you look at my record, as well, you can see what I've done as a government minister. I created Infrastructure Australia, bringing together business, bringing together superannuation funds, bringing together civil society.
 
GILBERT: So you're not the radical lefty of years gone by?
 
ALBANESE: I am what I am, Kieran, and I have a proud record of creating Infrastructure Australia, creating the national Urban Policy Forum, creating Regional Development Australia to bring people together on how we get regional economic growth, how we get those jobs in the regional centres. We have a really strong program going forward. We’ve announced, just since December, a climate and energy policy that's been endorsed by the Business Council, the National Farmers’ Federation, the ACTU, ACCI and the Australian Industry Group.
 
GILBERT: Still small target though. It is still a small target.
 
ALBANESE: That’s a very serious policy, Kieran. That will create 604,000 new jobs, it will lead to $52 billion of private sector investment, it will lead to a 43 per cent reduction in our emissions by 2030. It is a serious policy.
 
GILBERT: Do you think people see you and they think your vision is, you know, transformational or might inspire people to vote for you as opposed to not voting for the other side?
 
ALBANESE: Well, it's a serious reform agenda. It's an agenda for change. But it's an agenda for safe change. We're saying exactly what we will do, whether it be our climate and energy policy, our policy for free TAFE where there are areas of skill shortages, our policy to address the aged care crisis, our policy for cheaper child care, our policy for national reconstruction, supporting new industries to be created so that we don't just export all our resources, wait for value to be added and then import it back at greater value. We create the jobs right here in Australia. I want a future made in Australia, I want more secure work and I want to lift living standards. That all adds up to a better future for Australia and one that is done in a way that brings the whole of Australia with us on the journey.
 
GILBERT: So you want to say you’re a safe pair of hands on the economy. They’re trying to say you’re not on security, particularly with the ASIO advice this week. But you've spoken to the ASIO Director-General and, around the reports that Chinese puppeteers or whatever are trying to influence Labor candidates, the Director-General has not raised those concerns directly with you. Are you saying those reports are rubbish?
 
ALBANESE: I'm saying completely that the sort of spin that's been put on these issues by Peter Dutton are quite extraordinary. And what we're seeing is an attempt to misuse the issue of national security, which itself if you look at the Director-General’s speech, he stands by that speech. I get regularly briefed by the Director-General of ASIO, by the head of ONI, I met with this week and was briefed by the Director-General of ASIO.
 
GILBERT: And there’s no truth to that?
 
ALBANESE: You cannot talk about the nature of briefings. What I can say is that I spoke to the Director-General of ASIO on Friday and reaffirmed the fact that they had no issues, no issues, with any of the candidates that we’re taking to the election.
 
GILBERT: You met Antony Blinken yesterday, just finally, former Prime Minister Rudd basically shelved the Quadrilateral Security Dialogue. Do you support it? Will you stick with it? How important is it?
 
ALBANESE: I support it very strongly. What's occurred between recent times since 2013 is that we have a different China that we're dealing with. A different China means that we have different regional circumstances. And the relationship between the United States, a relationship which arose through John Curtin in 1942, that was strengthened in 1986 by Kim Beazley, that was strengthened again by Julia Gillard while I was a minister with the placing of additional US Marines in our north. It is a strong relationship and it is our most important relationship.
 
GILBERT: And no weakening of that?
 
ALBANESE: Not at all, not at all. And I've been a participant in the US dialogue for a couple of decades. I have a long association. I first visited the United States as a guest of the State Department well over 30 years ago. I have a long relationship and friendship with people in the United States. It was great to see Kurt Campbell again yesterday and we had a very long discussion yesterday with Penny Wong. We’ll continue to engage with our friends in the US, but we’ll also engage with our friends in India and Japan. We were able to have that dialogue yesterday as well. It’s telling that they reached out to have meetings with us as the Opposition yesterday during what was a very busy day. And they were productive and constructive. I've visited both those countries as a minister as well, as well as, of course, having many visits and dialogue with our friends in the United States.
 
GILBERT: And they’re worried about Ukraine right now, of course.
 
ALBANESE: They’re very worried about Ukraine, and they're entitled to. And I would say this on behalf of the Labor Party, Russia should back off. The threats and intimidation that's occurring to a sovereign state like the Ukraine are entirely inappropriate in 2022. And we respect Ukraine’s sovereignty, and that should be respected by all, including Russia.
 
GILBERT: Mr Albanese, I appreciate your time. Thanks.
 
ALBANESE: Thanks very much.
 
ENDS