SUBJECTS: NSW Upper Hunter by-election; Victorian COVID-19 outbreak; quarantine; vaccine rollout; Federal Budget 2021; borders; stage three tax cuts; next Federal election; Aussies stranded overseas; Labor’s Housing Australia Future Fund; trade; Australia’s relationship with China; climate change; National Reconstruction Fund; Federal Labor’s policies; Tasmanian Labor.

MIKE O’LOUGHLIN, HOST: Good morning to you. 

ANTHONY ALBANESE, LEADER OF THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY: Good morning. Good to be with you again. 

O’LOUGHLIN: Indeed, it is. We'll start by asking you if you've dealt with your colleagues, colleagues that support Joel Fitzgibbon, after Bill Shorten came for them to pull their heads in. Is there a Labor rebellion?

ALBANESE: I'm not quite sure what you are referring to. But we are humming along.

O’LOUGHLIN: It is the Upper Hunter. What I'm talking about, remember, you had the election with the Upper Hunter which was a poor result there. 

ALBANESE: We haven't won the seat in over 90 years. When we had the landslides, we won seats like Manly, Willoughby, Wakehurst, seats on the North Shore, seats on the Northern Beaches. Labor's been in Government for most of the last 90 years in New South Wales. We have never troubled the scorers in winning that seat. Simple as that. A couple of elections we got 17 per cent of the primary vote. The National Party got 54 on the weekend and we got 20. Would Labor have liked to have got more? Yes. But there's a need for a bit of perspective here. And I think some of the commentary has been completely ahistorical, expecting Labor to win a seat, as I said, we've never won, even when we have won just about every seat in the entire state. 

O’LOUGHLIN: But it must be a bit annoying. I mean, to say the least, not a good look that Bill Shorten goes on television and when asked if Joel Fitzgibbon should be booted from the Party, said in terms of Joel, it shouldn't be fixed. Then, of course, well, everybody, every journo wants to weigh in.

ALBANESE: Well, yourself included.

O’LOUGHLIN: Absolutely.

ALBANESE: People are responsible for their own actions. People will make their own judgment as to whether people are making a constructive contribution or not to Labor being elected. I will say this to the entire team, we need to be focused on winning the next Federal election, we have lost the last three. And what we need to be focused on is the needs of the Australian people, how we get ourselves elected but get ourselves elected with a platform that prioritises good, secure work, that deals with the issue that have just been handed down in the Budget, where the Budget has been handed down and predicts wages going backwards in real terms over the next four years, that predicts low growth, low productivity, low workforce participation. And they have been in Government for three terms. Does anyone think they're going to get better in their fourth term? And the other thing I say to people, when I talk to groups like the Property Institute yesterday here in Canberra, or other forums, is what can you remember is a big reform that this Government has done in its three terms? And there's nothing there. When Labor is in Government, we produced Fibre to the Premise, we were rolling out National Broadband Network, we introduced paid parental leave for the first time, we created Infrastructure Australia and made major reform there. We ratified the Kyoto Protocol and engaged with the world on dealing with climate change. We apologised for the Stolen Generations. We increased access to universities. We funded infrastructure in our schools. We made a significant difference in the time that we were there. This Government are just occupying the space, not putting forward any agenda for this term, and they're not going to get better in the fourth term if they are successful the next election.

O’LOUGHLIN: It is a good call when you described the Government as all smirk and mirrors, as well as all shirk and mirrors. A little bit of tongue in cheek, I can wear that.

ALBANESE: There's an arrogance to them. There's an arrogance to the way that they deal with things. They only respond when there's an absolute crisis. So whether it's the bushfires or whether it is the issues associated with the pandemic, such as the loss of jobs, it took the queues around Centrelink offices to be traveling around the block before they agreed to introduce JobKeeper and wage subsidies. The Prime Minister described it as a dangerous idea. And now at the moment, we're seeing the consequences of the Government's arrogance and complacency when it comes to quarantine and the rollout of the vaccine. We're seeing a Melbourne outbreak which has arisen from a hotel quarantine circumstance in the centre of Adelaide. Every outbreak from hotel quarantine is a direct result of Scott Morrison's failure to put in place a safe national quarantine system that's right there in the Constitution. That is the responsibility of the Federal Government.

O’LOUGHLIN: We've moved on to vaccines, I will cover off on a couple of other things, but you have moved into that. And of course, Tasmania's public health hotlines are taking calls from 40 people, you've probably heard, saying that they had attended the AFL game at the MCG on Sunday when a confirmed COVID-19 case was also present. Here in Tassie, they've done a great job here. Premier Peter Gutwein has done very well in regard to the COVID-19. And all of a sudden, you go to watch a footy game in Victoria, there's thousands, and now we find, well, hang on, someone was actually crook at the MCG. So now there's a massive amount of crew having to be tested and checked and there might now be another lockdown, which is devastating for small business, and we're only talking Victoria. But hey, that filters over to Tasmania.

ALBANESE: Of course, it will. There would have been people from other states as well, it was my understanding that it was a Collingwood-Port game. So you'll have people in South Australia, you might have as well, the Pies, of course, have a support base in particular right around the country. And that's what happens when we get this wrong. And the real problem here isn't that mistakes can be made. But where governments are warned, as this Government has been for so many months, for almost a year, they've had a long time to prepare here. Scott Morrison arrogantly dismisses the need for national quarantine, even though common sense tells you that quarantining people in hotels that are built for tourists, not as health facilities, where you have ventilation systems that haven't been properly looked after, they're not appropriate. That means that in many of those systems, it spreads throughout a facility as opposed to an area like Howard Springs or areas that have been proposed in places like Wellcamp Airport in Toowoomba or other facilities that have been proposed. We need appropriate facilities. Common sense tells you that putting them in the middle of CBDs is not a good outcome. 

O’LOUGHLIN: Well, that's where we just found out it is from, you'd agree with this because it's absolutely shambolic, the hotel quarantine.

ALBANESE: This is the 17th outbreak from hotel quarantine. 

O’LOUGHLIN: The person that went in there was actually tested and he didn't have COVID. All of a sudden, he comes out and he's got COVID from the hotel.

ALBANESE: That's right. He did okay in India but didn't do okay in a hotel in Adelaide. And that's because hotels that aren't fit-for-purpose, that haven't got proper ventilation systems, aren't appropriate places to be. And the Prime Minister yesterday in Question Time stood up and gave these figures of 99.99 per cent have been okay. There have been 17 outbreaks. How many does it take before the Government accepts that they have a responsibility? And when the Queensland Premier put forward the proposal in terms of Wellcamp, with the support of Mr Wagner who owns the facility, who says they can get up very quickly a facility that could house 600 people but then could be going up to 1,000. The Prime Minister said, 'Oh, it's in the desert and people would have to come to Brisbane Airport and go through Brisbane'. There's an airport in Wellcamp. The Prime Minister's plane has landed. They have international freight flights there and large aircraft all the time. There's no reason why that can't be a facility. And what's more, the Prime Minister in March said that by April/May the Howard Springs facility will be increased in size from 800 to 2,000. Now, it is now May 27th and we still see no expansion of the facility.

O’LOUGHLIN: It has made more people have a jab, though. Well, that's the thing. A least more people suddenly said, 'Well, I better finally have the vaccine'.

ALBANESE: And last week, we've had more messages on the vaccine from the Government, a weathervane in a tornado. It changes every time they come out and speak publicly. We had a Liberal Senator, Gerard Rennick, say in Parliament this week who made an extraordinary statement about how he is sitting back and watching and certainly far from encouraging people to get vaccinated. He made it clear that he wasn't going to. You have had the Health Minister say, 'Don't worry, the mRNA vaccines are coming down the track', sending a message that we didn't have any sense of urgency. And the Prime Minister himself say it is not a race. The truth is that we need to get vaccinated. We should be encouraging people to be vaccinated. There's been no significant public campaign at all. I have seen more ads for Hamilton the musical than there are for people getting vaccinated. And the ads that are out there are shockers. They are bad.

O’LOUGHLIN: If I could quickly ask a question from one of our listeners Grant who just called to ask why the cricketers who are coming back from India are allowed to fly into Sydney when everybody else had to go to Darwin to isolate. Seems like the sports people are getting away with everything.

ALBANESE: It's a fair point. So many Australians are stranded overseas. And Australians should be able to come back. But we have had, I think, a lot of concern about different treatment. We've got unaccompanied minors who are stranded overseas, children without their parents stranded in India who haven't been able to come back. The Prime Minister said last year that he would have Australians home by Christmas. And we know that more than 30,000 Australians remain stranded.

O’LOUGHLIN: Can I then ask you, let's move on to a little bit of coal? And I suppose we probably shouldn't harp on about Upper Hunter and the mining there. But in regard to coal, and now that an Australian coal ship has delivered its load of coal one year after taking on the load and waiting out at sea for the time, I mean, is this a sign that we are once again exporting coal to China?

ALBANESE: Well, we want our exports to be able to be delivered to China. It's been a real concern. There has been a hold-up not just of one ship, but of many ships and of many resources, of course. Trade is important in terms of bringing in money to Australia that can then be spent on education and health and other areas. And it's a good thing for the ship that has been out at sea, and, of course, think of the crew who have really done it tough on the various ships that have been unable to dock in China due to the dispute that's occurring there.

O’LOUGHLIN: Can I then ask you about the Budget, the Federal Budget? Labor's moving closer, I was reading, to supporting Scott Morrison's $17 billion a year stage three tax cuts. And you're not going to seek to permanently entrench the low- and middle-income tax offset if you win the next election?

ALBANESE: If you actually read that article, it's complete fiction. There's no sources and there's no anything. There's been no Shadow Cabinet decisions. It is just people musing. Musing away. Filling up space in the newspaper. That's all that is.

O’LOUGHLIN: Can I ask you on a more positive note about the 10,000 affordable homes for frontline workers you will build as part of a $10 billion Housing Future Fund established by a Labor Government? I mean, this is a big promise. And Labor will also build 20,000 social housing properties over five years. Because here in Tassie, that's a big issue.

ALBANESE: It is a huge issue there. Waiting lists for social housing have never been longer around the country. And we have circumstances whereby, for example, 10,000 women and kids were turned away from shelter last year. 10,000 people escaping or trying to escape domestic violence, family violence situations, who had to sleep in their car, sleep in park, or potentially go back to an unsafe situation. We need to do much better when it comes to social housing. And our Future Fund will be a $10 billion fund in which we use the returns from that investment to then produce social housing and affordable housing for some of the most vulnerable people who are there and for affordable housing for essential workers. There are a range of affordable housing projects that are occurring through superannuation funds or other organisations, but we are not doing enough to make sure that people can get a roof over their head. I know in Tasmania, when I visited, that has been a major issue. The queues have never been longer for public housing in Tasmania. We need to make sure that we're dealing with that. And if you are increasing the supply of housing as well, that will have a positive impact for private renters and for homeownership as well.

O’LOUGHLIN: Can I ask you, if I may, about renewable energy? Because we've got a possibility that Bell Bay might be green hydrogen. I'm sure you've heard about that. Would you be pushing to help support Tasmania? The jobs, the industry there in Bell Bay would be massive.

ALBANESE: Hydrogen has got to be a part of the future as the world moves to net zero by 2050. I have had a look at demonstration projects. There is one in Perth that is quite exciting. You can have emissions free energy. What hydrogen does is that it stores energy and is a clear path of why I say Australia can be a renewable energy superpower for the world. We can be an exporter, not just in terms of looking after our domestic opportunities. If we get this right as well, it will lower energy costs which will lead to substantial benefit in terms of manufacturing things here as well. I think that can be quite exciting for Tasmania. I want to see manufacturing jobs in Tasmania. I want to see Tasmania take its place as a strong state when it comes to our renewable energy future.

O’LOUGHLIN: Is there a big delay on releasing the Labor tax policy?

ALBANESE: It's not a delay, because it comes in in 2024. What we said in 2018 was that it was a triumph of hope over experience for the Government to say that now the Budget is going to look like this in 2024. Because in 2019 they said the Budget was in surplus. It wasn't. That was just a lie. They said it would be in surplus and would be each and every year. And we know that that's not the case. So we were right in expressing our concern. There was a triumph of hope over experience to say you knew what the economy would look like in five years. And it is also the case, and we have been reminded of this in the last 24 hours with the Melbourne lockdown, that we don't know what the economy will look like in a year's time, let alone in 2024. So we will make all of our tax policies known, as well as our expenditure policies, well before the next election. We were right to say five years in advance was just a political ploy and a bad economic policy to make those decisions that far in advance. And we are proving to be correct, frankly.

O’LOUGHLIN: It's interesting, isn't it? I guess being the Leader of the Opposition, when you're in that particular seat, you're going to get heavy criticism. And your job is to criticise the Government. I noticed that there was one particular write-up saying the key criticism of the 2019 Labor campaign strategy was the then leader Bill Shorten had too many policies and too many of them announced too early. Now, this was a collective failure shared by all of those still in the Opposition frontbench says this article. So perhaps you are taking a bit of a leaf off there and saying 'Well, let's not release everything too soon'.

ALBANESE: We had a review of why it is that we weren't successful in 2016 and 2019. And we did that review, not as some academic exercise, but to chart a path forward. And what I said was that we would have a process and review firstly. Then we had a series of vision statements in which I outlined my vision in terms of democratic systems, aged care, climate change, I announced the position of net zero by 2050. That's where I announced Jobs and Skills Australia to look at jobs and make sure that Australians could fill and have the skills to fill those jobs in the future. I outlined that. An then we had our platform and our National Conference that was completed in March. And I said that we would kick with the wind in the fourth quarter. And the fourth quarter is beginning now. We'll be rolling at our policies. We'll roll out all of our policies and will also say how we'll pay for any commitments that we make. We made the substantial housing announcement. We have made a substantial industrial relations announcement about getting secure work. We have made our cheaper child care policy announcement. We have a policy for the transmission grid, to upgrade that. And we have our National Reconstruction Fund, which is all about how we build back stronger. So we're rolling out our policies. We're doing it on our timetable. We will have an ambitious agenda at the next election. But we won't have 280 fully costed policies, we'll have a much clearer narrative. That's a lesson that we learned from 2019. And we make no apologies for that. And of course, we've being constructive during the pandemic, including putting forward wage subsidies that led to JobKeeper, saying we needed to increase Newstart, continuing to say that we need to get the vaccine right and we need to make sure we have a national quarantine system with appropriate facilities.

O’LOUGHLIN: We mentioned briefly about the coal ship after one year finally dropping its load over to China, which is good news. But then tell me in defence, American military want to stockpile arms in the top end. And that now has got China up in arms. We are sort of just getting the coal over to China and then they're going to say, 'Well, you're in trouble again'.

ALBANESE: We need to look after our own national interest based upon our own values. Part of our values, of course, is our alliance with the United States. They are our ally. But we need also to be able to engage in a mature way, as we've been able to under the Howard Government and the Rudd and Gillard Governments and under the Abbott Government, with China, because so many jobs are dependent upon our trade. We need to make sure we diversify our trading partners and not be dependent on any one partner. And one of the concerns is that under the current Government, they have made it so that almost 50 per cent of our exports were going to one destination, to China. Clearly, diversification is in our interest. But we need to make decisions about Defence and other issues based upon our own values and our own interests.

O’LOUGHLIN: Just to finish off, Can I ask you, if you don't mind, maybe you can put your opinion on record as to who you think should be the new state Labor Leader?

ALBANESE: That is a matter for the Tasmanian branch of the Labor Party. I know both of them. I have known David for a very long time. I regard him as a friend of mine. I have got to know Shane, also. I think it's a good thing that there is a contest. And it's a good thing that people will be able to discuss ideas. And I look forward to working with whoever is successful.

O’LOUGHLIN: Well, Anthony Albanese, Federal Labor Leader, pleasure to have a chat this morning. I appreciate your time.

ALBANESE: Thanks very much.

ENDS