SUBJECTS: COVID-19 pandemic across Australia; Doherty modelling; national plan for reopening; vaccine rollout; need for national quarantine facilities; state borders; lockdowns; COVID-19 restrictions; international and domestic travel; Labor’s $300 vaccination incentive; mental health during COVID-19; Tasmanian Labor; women’s safety; Respect@Work; affordable housing; “Hot Albo”.

MIKE O’LOUGHLIN, HOST: Good morning to you. 

ANTHONY ALBANESE, LEADER OF THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY: Good morning. Good to be with you again. 

O’LOUGHLIN: It is indeed. Look, you're a regular on the program now.

ALBANESE: As I should be. Why not? I can't get to visit at the moment, of course, but at least we can talk.

O’LOUGHLIN: You can indeed. We can have a chat. Look, let's talk first of all about the national vaccine rollout with the kids involved now. I mean, your thoughts on that? Because I know that the PM has said let's not let negativity overwhelm our optimism and ideas of letting the virus rip. He said they were fanciful, foolish and dangerous. And he stated he's taking responsibility for early setbacks in the vaccination program, which is a good thing because it was a shambolic start, we'd have to agree.

ALBANESE: Well, it certainly was shambolic. And what we need to do is that we learn from those lessons. And that means we need to vaccinate the 12- to 15-year-olds. That also means that we need to, now that's been approved, we also need to either include it in the national target or at least the Government needs to explain what its target is. But we also need to prepare for paediatric vaccines. In the United States, the US Government have signed a massive deal for tens of millions of doses with Pfizer already. And we need to prepare for that. Because we are seeing in various parts of the country, unfortunately, young people, very young people, including some babies, catch this dreadful disease.

O’LOUGHLIN: What is really, I guess, confusing for some, is it 70 or 80 per cent required then to start the removal of lockdowns which affect Tasmania because those who you can visit from interstate, like your lockdown, there are so many lockdowns, it's quite dreadful? And we need, in that 70 or 80 per cent now, include those children 12+ in those figures, as you've said, and then realistically, some people have said it really needs to be 90 per cent.

ALBANESE: Well, the Tasmanian Government, I noticed, are talking about 90 per cent. But the clear thing that we need to do is to actually be straight with people. The national plan is on one A4 sheet. And some of the things that the Government says it does just aren't there. There's no mention in the national plan of state borders. There is mention under phase B and C, less likely to have lockdowns. But it does allow for targeted lockdowns, even in phase C. And it also, in terms of the Doherty modelling, speaks about TTIQ, that you need to test, trace, isolate and quarantine. And we need to get those things right as well. I am speaking to you from New South Wales, where the hospital system is under enormous pressure here. We had scenes yesterday of ambulances outside Concord Hospital for hour after hour with COVID patients inside, with the medical professionals having to look after them in the backs of ambulances because they couldn't get into the hospital. So we need to be very straight with people about what's going on here. I very much support the national plan. But we need to recognise that the public are expecting some certainty. And yesterday, I saw Stuart Robert do a train wreck of an interview on the Insiders program. And quite frankly, people who watched that would have been more confused than they were at the beginning of the interview. 

O’LOUGHLIN: Look, I would agree with you. It was a train wreck. And I totally support your claim in that. I didn't realise though that you're back in Sydney for the first time in months and therefore in Sydney, you're in lockdown. You've gone from Canberra lockdown to Sydney lockdown.

ALBANESE: Indeed. Unfortunately. But I did get home on Friday afternoon, so it was nice to actually see my son for Father's Day. And it was the first time since June. So I, of course, have been to Tasmania in the meantime and been to Queensland a couple of times but spent most of the time in Canberra. And I expect I'll be back in Canberra lockdown before too long.

O’LOUGHLIN: Listen, it's quite dreadful, you look at Victoria now, the highest daily caseload for Victoria since August 16 last year in 2020. They've got to 246 new cases. Now, Tasmania, as you're aware, relies on a lot of Victorians coming over here. And with lockdown that moves on to a question about digital vaccination certificates. So you support them? And what about for international tourists expected to come to Australia, in particular to study etc?

ALBANESE: Well, look, international travel is going to be dependent on vaccines. It's as simple as that. Just as to travel, in my experience of various times over the years, I had to have cholera, typhoid, all sorts of jabs in order to gain admission to countries in South America and elsewhere in the region. That will be similar. I just think that is a matter of fact moving forward. So we're going to need it. Australians who want to travel overseas are going to need that. And for people coming here, that will be a requirement because the international airlines industry is going to insist on that. When it comes to travel, including to the south island from the north island here where I am, I would expect that the Tasmanian Government are giving real consideration to what will be required in order to keep the state safe. And that is a reasonable thing for them to do. So I think when businesses make decisions, they'll be commercial decisions about people are going to want to know if they go into a restaurant, that they're not going to catch COVID while they are there.

O’LOUGHLIN: Moving between states, I think we are moving now towards a digital vaccination certificate more. So that was an argument. People are saying that's not necessary. I think it's going to be obviously mandatory. And a lot of businesses are now insisting upon it state-wide.

ALBANESE: Well, I'm not surprised that businesses are insisting on it. And I think that is their right to do so, to protect their workers, to protect themselves and their businesses, but also to protect fellow customers. That is something that will increasingly emerge as the rate of vaccination increases. Tasmania has done quite well, I think you're second in the nation at the moment. And that's a good thing.

O’LOUGHLIN: What about people faking certificates? Do we need something similar to a driver's license that you can tell straight away is legitimate?

ALBANESE: I think there needs to be a national development of these issues. That's something that should be the responsibility of the Commonwealth. You can't have different systems and people just being able to produce any form of documentation. There has to be a standard measure. And that's just common sense. 

O’LOUGHLIN: Now, I remember this phrase $300 that you were proposing for a while, I mean, a while back, is that proposal to pay people to get the jab, has it kind of moved on? Because let's face it, the election is next March, and we should as a country be mostly vaccinated by then and looking at booster shots. So the 300 will be redundant?

ALBANESE: Well, I don't think so. I think the issue is that we're still well under, we're not halfway there yet, to being fully vaccinated. The rest of the world is still way ahead of us. We are fourth last in the developed world, in the entire industrialised countries of the world. So what we know is that getting the first 60 per cent or a bit higher is pretty easy. International experience shows that. The difficulty is then how do you encourage people who might be willing to get a jab but just haven't got around to it to do it as a matter of urgency? How do you make sure that those people who have been trying to get vaccinated, trying to make appointments, have tried once twice, three times and have given up, how do you get them back into the system? How do you start conversations with families so that kids can talk to their parents and vice versa about, 'Hey, have you got your $300'? Economic incentives work. And that's why the Federal Government introduced economic incentives for childcare, a ‘No Jab, No Play’ policy, that they introduced when Scott Morrison was Social Security Minister, as a condition of getting childcare rebate and some of the family assistance payments. There are incentives everywhere. And isn't it better also to talk about a positive initiative, rather than just sticks, if you like? This is a carrot. It's a carrot that is timely prior to December 1 because the economy is really struggling. Everyone expects that the quarter we're in will be negative, that is, that the economy will go backwards and contract. If you need economic stimulus, why not link it to a health outcome? 

O’LOUGHLIN: Well, they have said the September quarter looks like it's going to be down to that 'R word', recession. Would you agree? We've had some good quarters. But September is looking pretty dire.

ALBANESE: September will go backwards. I don't think there is any question about that. The question is does December go backwards as well? And this is a constructive suggestion to the Government to help stop that happening.

O’LOUGHLIN: Josh Frydenberg has said there are two key reasons to end lockdowns and 70 or 80 per cent, or some people hoping for 90. He says economy and people's health. And we need to think of that. Former Australian of the Year and psychiatrist, Patrick McGorry, speaking of health, has spoken of a shadow pandemic in our midst, that of our mental health. How would you address the problem?

ALBANESE: Well, you address it by getting to a position whereby you can open up as soon as possible. And that's what everyone wants. No one wants lockdowns. Because it is having an enormous impact on people's health. Young people who can't see their friends and can't engage in the way that they've been used to, families that can't see each other. There is a real consequence of this isolation. In parts of my electorate, where I am now, there's a curfew on at night. And there's a curfew on one side of the street but not another because they're based upon local government boundaries. Now, that places enormous pressure on people. And I think that we do need to recognise that. There's been increased calls to all of the support services like Beyond Blue and Lifeline and others who are doing fantastic work at the moment. But we do need to recognise the impact on people's mental health that this pandemic is having.

O’LOUGHLIN: Well, you would be aware of that YouGov poll, it showed Australians are more worried about jobs and mental health than any surge in the pandemic. So in that, you discussed it, you touched on it briefly before, Federal Labor, how would it help the health system, which in all states is struggling, and I know you've said how bad it is yourself, it's bad in Tasmania, we still have a shortage of beds, we still have ambulance ramping. How can Labor then assist and make things better in Tasmania in health? 

ALBANESE: Well, I think there will be a need to increase health funding. And we asked questions about that last week. We really did ask multiple times about our hospital system, which is really struggling. And what we got was platitudes back. When you have additional pressure on the health system of state governments, that are largely run by state governments, but at a time when the reason why this pressure is on because of Federal Government failure when it comes to securing enough vaccines and having purpose-built quarantine, then I think there is an obligation upon the Federal Government to provide additional support for the hospital and health system.

O’LOUGHLIN: I am speaking with Anthony Albanese, Federal Opposition Leader. Attorney-General, Michaelia Cash, has warned that state governments will risk their constitutional power to shut borders once the nation hits 80 per cent. Now, do you agree with the fact, obviously you've got a friend in McGowan in WA, he's wanting border closures beyond the time of vaccinations reaching 80 per cent, do you back the Doherty report or Mark McGowan?

ALBANESE: I back Mark McGowan who backs the national plan that provides for, if necessary, targeted lockdowns. That's a part of the plan. And that's one of the problems here is that all of the Federal Government's spin, like the spin that said we were at the front of the queue, remember that? That was the spin this time last year. And it just wasn't true. And so it is the case that every state and territory government has signed up to the national plan. And what I can't fathom is why the Federal Government insists on picking a fight with the state Labor premiers of Western Australia and Queensland, never mentions South Australia or Tasmania, which of course, have very similar policies as well to keep their state safe. I think that the Commonwealth Government and the Prime Minister should be working with state premiers rather than against them and trying to pick fights in order to distract from the problems that are there at the moment.

O’LOUGHLIN: With state Labor now being led by Rebecca White and her opinion of David O'Byrne well known, what advice, as Labor Leader, would you give Mr O'Byrne? And what is the outcome that you heard on the investigations against the State President, Ben McGregor?

ALBANESE: We have a process. And part of that process is that it be confidential. And I allow those processes to take place.

O’LOUGHLIN: Well, obviously, that's a subtle move on. But you've also stated that Labor remains committed to tackling Australia's housing affordability crisis. So how so now that Labor has dropped reforms to negative gearing, a policy taken to the 2016 and 2017 elections by Bill Shorten? And Tasmania isn't no different than other states in housing shortages, matter of fact, quite dreadful in this state.

ALBANESE: It is. And housing affordability is a major issue. I know that house prices have risen substantially in places like Launceston. And the rental vacancy rate is below one per cent. And there is a massive wait for social housing, which is why I put social housing at the centre of my Budget Reply this year. 30,000 additional social housing units or affordable housing, including housing for women and children escaping domestic violence, an additional 4,000 units, something that, unfortunately, is not on the agenda at today's summit that has been called on women's safety.

O’LOUGHLIN: Look, we probably need to probably touch on that as well. I just want to actually, if I can, ask you about the tycoon tax that big business would be whacked with 40 per cent super profits tax under a Greens' plan to raise an amazing $338 billion over 10 years. Adam Bandt says that current polling suggests a power sharing Parliament is the most likely result at the next Federal election. Is he suggesting that Greens and Labor share that? And also, would you agree with his tycoon tax?

ALBANESE: Well, what I know is the polling doesn't suggest that. And what I know is that we're seeking to be a majority government. And we won't be doing deals with any minor party or any individual after the election. What we'll be seeking to do is to govern in our own right and to govern in the interests of Australians based upon the platform that we take as the Labor Party, as a party of government, to the election.

O’LOUGHLIN: Can I then ask you about women's health? With that summit, where will Labor assist? Because it's not just health overall, it is mental health. There's a great deal. It's a huge issue. And it's an issue not just in every other state, but here in Tasmania.

ALBANESE: This is a vital summit taking place. I wasn't invited to it, unfortunately. That is the decision that the Government made. But we will be represented there. And it's vital that we address the full range of issues. I was very disappointed that the Respect@Work report was itself not respected last week. This was a vital piece of work by the Human Rights Commission and it made serious recommendations. Labor will support all of them. And we moved amendments on the floor of the Parliament and attempted to get that adopted. I think those measures are minimal measures that should be put in place. Employers should do what they can to keep their workforce, women in particular, safe from sexual harassment. And we need to also address issues like housing. The figures that show that every night there are women and children turned away from emergency shelter because there just isn't enough, is not good enough in 2021. We need to ensure that people can escape from those circumstances safely. And society has a responsibility to do that, as we have a responsibility to talk about these issues and to stamp out domestic violence.

O’LOUGHLIN: Would you put more concentration, if you will, into the national plan, if you had the opportunity of changing it, with more emphasis on women's health?

ALBANESE: Absolutely. I think it is a critical issue. And we have had, during the pandemic, also a significant increase in reporting of violence against women. And that is of real concern. And this is something that as a society reflects badly on us. And governments have a responsibility, as do all of us, to do what we can to ensure that women can feel safe whether it's in the workplace or at home.

O’LOUGHLIN: Can I just finish with the interesting fact that in your stomping ground of Grayndler in the women's restroom at the Marrickville Metro Shopping Centre is a giant pop-up portrait of a young Albanese. 

ALBANESE: I have not had an explanation. Because I haven't been home, I haven't actually seen the particular artwork. But apparently there are different artworks in the various bathrooms throughout the Marrickville Metro Shopping Centre of various public identities.

O’LOUGHLIN: And they've said it's a Hot Albo with an earring. I can't quite picture that.

ALBANESE: It is of a photo of mine that went viral many years ago because someone put it out there with a “Hot Albo” hashtag. And it went a bit crazy. And someone has turned that photo into a portrait. It was when I was at university. So I've got a t-shirt on that identifies the year as 1985. So I was either 21 or 22 at the time. And perhaps what it really shows is that I haven't aged that well.

O’LOUGHLIN: Tell me, is it true that there's a Labor colouring-in book? Is that for real? I read that as a joke. Is there really a Labor colouring-in book?

ALBANESE: No, there is. Someone did that. Just a bit of fun with various figures in it. I haven't seen it myself. All I've seen is some stuff about it online. But that's just something I think that one of our branch members did. We are a creative lot in the Labor Party. And I think during lockdown as well, people are trying to fill in time in all sorts of ways.

O’LOUGHLIN: Obviously, the colouring in. And you'll have to stay within those lines. But listen, great to talk with you, Anthony Albanese, Federal Opposition Leader. I appreciate our chat this morning and we'll have a chat again hopefully in the near future, we'll possibly when you can move around a little bit more. 

ALBANESE: I look forward to coming to your beautiful state when I can.

O’LOUGHLIN: Good on you. Thank you for that. Good to talk to you, Anthony Albanese, Federal Opposition Leader.

ENDS