SUBJECTS: Federal Government’s bungled vaccine rollout; Federal Government’s three failings through COVID pandemic; Scott Morrison’s promises vs. delivery; Royal Commission into Veteran Suicide; Wounded Heroes; manufacturing in Australia. 

LUKE BONA, HOST: Anthony Albanese, good morning, and welcome to the Night Shift around Australia on the Triple M network.

ANTHONY ALBANESE, LEADER OF THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY: Good morning. Good to be with you

BONA: The vaccination rollout. Is it a stuff up? Or is it a huge stuff up?

ALBANESE: It is hard to, it will be hard to exaggerate how big these errors have been. I think they're being compounded by the Government's own rhetoric and the gap between rhetoric and actual reality. We were told that we're at the front of the queue. The truth is, we weren't. Other countries were doing deals in March and April of last year. We didn't really start till September, and we didn't do enough deals. We put all our eggs in the AstraZeneca basket and the chickens have come home to roost.

BONA: Well, I mean, the experts said Pfizer was better, more effective. But can I just ask why couldn't we develop a vaccination here at the best laboratories in the world, CSL?

ALBANESE: There was an attempt to do that. And that wasn't successful, it didn't proceed. But we should have had not just additional Pfizer vaccines available but we should have done deals with Moderna, perhaps with Johnson and Johnson, there's some issues there as well. But one of the things has happened in the UK, for example, is that when they’re told, essentially, that the younger people not to have AstraZeneca, Moderna was there just to step in. And that's just not possible here. You, of course, had all sorts of promises made. We were told we were at the front of the queue, and we weren't. We were told there be four million people vaccinated by March and the real figure ended up being 1 million. And we were told, of course, everyone will be vaccinated by October, and then we were told you'd get one shot by October, and it just just didn't work out.

BONA: But is it really, is it all the Federal Government's fault, though? I mean, the Prime Minister wasn't to know that the blood clotting issue would come up and the Prime Minister wasn't to know that the EU would pull back on a lot of these vaccinations. Is it easy to pile on and kick heads here?

ALBANESE: Well, the Prime Minister did know that he should have had five or six deals, because that was international best practice. And he should have known, if you go back and have a look at the comments that he made at the time, he was saying “oh, we're being very conservative here. We're not talking ourselves up”. But it is something that characterises Scott Morrison, I think, is a capacity to go out there and tell everyone how well everything's going and without actually looking at the results and the gap that’s there between what's promised and what's delivered, is in this case, enormous. 

This was the most important job that the Government had this year, and now they've had to put their hand up, having said we won't have targets and we've given up, essentially, on setting timetables. They've had to go to the States and say “please help us out here”. And remember the three things that the Federal Government have been responsible for, one – that app that you've probably forgotten about. 

BONA: Oh, yeah. That COVID tracing app, it was a it was a dud. 

ALBANESE: We were all told that we had to download it. Well, thank goodness the states got their act together and worked out apps and tracing apps that have been effective. The second was aged care where the Government funds it, regulates it and is in charge of it, and we saw some real problems there. That's where the majority of deaths during 2020 came from. And then the rollout of the vaccine.

BONA: My local GP, Dr Phil Nori, he was just telling us how frustrated he was. Because at first he got 100 syringes, but he didn't get any needles or vaccination. Then he got the vaccination, but he still didn't have syringes, so he was using his own syringes. Then his needles ran out, his supplier says I can't give you a guarantee when you'll get your needles. He's got patients who are in the 1B and the 1A who are entitled to their vaccinations and they’re saying “what's going on? and he says “I don't know the answer”. Anyway, do you think maybe the states should have been in charge of this from the start?

ALBANESE: Well, my GP’s exactly the same. I live in Marrickville, as you know. I think, in Sydney, it's a very Greek part of Sydney. And people heard that they had to go and get their vaccine so they were queuing up outside the surgery. And there was nothing to give them. And they're very confused about it at all. And it's been really just a debacle.

BONA: All right. I'm talking with Anthony Albanese, the Leader of the Opposition. The travel bubble lifted with New Zealand yesterday to much joy and yipping. When do you reckon we'll be opening our international borders?

ALBANESE: It depends upon the vaccine, frankly. And that that's a reason why it is important. We get vaccinated because getting the health outcomes right is a precondition for then getting the economy opened up. And it's as simple as that. If you don't have the health concerns looked after you won't be able to open up the economy. Other countries won't accept people coming, I'm sure, who aren't vaccinated. We do have to get it get it right. We are great travellers, Australians. It's been, I think, last year would have been the first year for a very long wall that I haven't travelled outside our national borders, probably, since I was in my early 20s. 

BONA: Yeah, we had a trip booked in March last year. And we still haven't had our airfares returned from Garuda, we've probably kissed them goodbye. Albo, can we take a quick break? I want to come back and talk to you about the Royal Commission into veterans and veteran suicides. It's a really important topic, especially with the work we've been doing with wounded heroes this week in the lead up to ANZAC Day. It's a really important issue. Can we take a break and come back?

ALBANESE: Absolutely. 

BONA: You're listening to the night shift around Australia on the Triple M network. Anthony Albanese joins us this morning. Anthony, welcome back. Thanks for waiting on.

ALBANESE: Good to be here, mate.

BONA: The Government announced the Royal Commission into veteran and serving defence member suicides yesterday. In March, a motion passed both chambers of Parliament supporting the creation of the Royal Commission. It's really important. Why is it taken so long?

ALBANESE: Well, the Government resisted having the Royal Commission. We've been calling for it now, it was one of the first things I did after I became leader. And I didn't do it lightly, I did it after talking to people like Julie-Ann Finney, talking to other veterans and families of veterans who had taken their own lives. And I did it also after people like Luke Gosling, who's a former serviceman, who is the member representing Darwin and Palmerston in the north, and he spoke to me about his comrades and his experience. And I was convinced that we needed nothing less than a Royal Commission. The Government announced an interim measure that they said was better than a Royal Commission. But the truth is that didn't have the powers of the Royal Commission have. And that's really what we need here.

BONA: You’re right. Now, I know that you know, this, but this week I've been talking to people who have benefited from the most wonderful organisation. They’re called Wounded Heroes. I know you're aware of them, Anthony?

ALBANESE: I sure am. And they are one of the groups of, made up, not exclusively, that a lot of them are people who are former Defence Force personnel themselves. And the work that they do as volunteers is just extraordinary.

BONA: Well, I'm going to hit you for, hopefully, some funding if you win the next election because they are all run by volunteers. They have a hotline, a 1300 hotline, Anthony, that’s manned 24-7, even Christmas Day, by volunteers. Now, Martin Shaw is the President of Wounded Heroes, he has been for 10 years. He's on the other line. Martin say hello to Anthony Albanese.

MARTIN SHAW, PRESIDENT OF WOUNDED HEROES AUSTRALIA: Very Good morning. Good morning Anthony Albanese.

ALBANESE: Martin, absolute pleasure to be talking with you.

BONA: Martin, what would you like to say to the Leader of the Opposition?

SHAW: Well, I'm very much aware that when we come to office, as Opposition Leader that he was, he did the consultation, I do follow these things closely, and called for the Government to call for this Royal Commission. So there's some outcome there, and that shows the power you can be having from opposition.

BONA: Albo, can you believe that this organisation runs without any funding?

ALBANESE: It's extraordinary that they received no funding at all.

BONA: Well, donations from the public, that's why we’re trying to raise money, particularly in the lead up to ANZAC Day.

ALBANESE: And that’s a good thing. But one would have thought that, certainly if we were in government, we would give serious consideration to it and have a look at it.

BONA: How much would you need Martin?

SHAW: How long’s a piece of string there, Luke? We run off the smell of an oily rag. It's tough for the Government, there is no, in our space here, as you know, Anthony, in our space, we were in crisis. So we look after families in a financial crisis or homeless. We looked after 834 homeless veterans and families last year, just under 1200 families in financial crisis. So for us, it's tough to get government grants because no legislation around that. But having said that, when you come to talk to the Royal Commission, and I'm interested in the outcomes of the Royal Commission, but more importantly, I'm interested about today. We're involved in the space. We know, these families, we know and we have a proven service delivery model that can actually provide the outcomes and go a long way to prevent veteran suicide. And in that case, there, Anthony and Luke, it's just about money. It's just about quick, it's about speed. And it's about funds to be able to enact a veteran to put him into a plane, to get him into a clinic to engage with the hospital system, which is what we do. We're in this space up to our eyeballs and I must say, without being too political, that when we were announced around, you know, the consultation process in terms of reference for this particular space and what they're trying to achieve with those terms of references, I noticed in certain parts of that document that have already almost made their mind up. I was on the phone today to Karen Bird, Jesse’s mum, but also that for us, I think that we want to be at the table, because when we talk about these organisations that the Prime Minister talked about today, and I will be writing to the Prime Minister, and I'll CC you Anthony if you like.

ALBANESE: Yes, please.

SHAW: But we're actually on the ground. Every day, every day, seven days a week. 24-7.

BONA: Every day, 24-7, Anthony. So, Martin, I've made the introduction here. Anthony said yes, he will look into it. He will certainly love to be CCd in to any correspondence you have. Anthony, what else would you like to, to say to Martin? 

ALBANESE: Just thank you, for the work that you and your organisation does. I think that all of us in this in this great country of ours are such a debt to the men and women who wear our uniform and risk their own lives in order to defend our way of life. And the least we can do, the least we can do, is to look after people when they come home.

BONA: And suggesting that the soldiers that fought in Afghanistan may not get their medals and their honours, I mean, whose idea was that?

ALBANESE: Yeah, well, an extraordinary proposition. But we have, you know, more than 18 defence personnel and veterans have taken their lives, their own lives, this year alone.18.

BONA: It's dreadful. All right. Hopefully something will come out of this. Martin, I'll let you go. I'll talk to you soon.

SHAW: Yeah, thanks for your time. I look forward to catching up one day, Anthony. I'm meeting with Jason Clare on Wednesday and Shayne Neumann as well. 

ALBANESE: He's terrific, and Shane Newman has done, I've got to say as our Veterans Affairs Shadow, he has just been sensational. He’s engaged, he’s genuine and I look forward to hearing what comes of that. 

BONA: All right, you two will now be in touch. Thank you, Martin.

SHAW: Thanks Luke. 

BONA: Anthony Albanese, there's so much more I want to talk to you about. My listeners want to talk about the future of manufacturing in Australia. They want to talk about the future of green energy. They want to know “can their kids afford to get into a home one day?” There's so much that I know my listeners want to want to talk to you about can we talk on a semi regular basis, do you reckon?

ALBANESE: Absolutely. In a few hours’ time, later today, I'll be giving a speech to the clean energy and jobs summit that we're holding. It's online, it's virtual, where we've gathered people looking at how clean energy can actually drive manufacturing jobs, in particular, about the opportunities that are there from new technology. And from the transformation of our economy.

BONA: Is there really a possibility we could reinvigorate and kickstart the Australian car manufacturing industry?

ALBANESE: Of course we could.

BONA: But will we be competitive? Look, that's a topic for next week.

ALBANESE: I'll leave you with one thought, Luke, which is everything that goes into a battery in an electric vehicle, which is something that is going to be happening and not just passenger vehicles, but trucks, heavy vehicles, buses, of course, it's all happening. There's not a car manufacturer or auto manufacturer in the world that is looking at internal combustion engines at the moment. It's all changing. And everything that goes into it, the nickel, the copper, the lithium, we have it in abundance. And we should be, for example as a very much first step, but at least building batteries here for the automotive industry. Something like one in four batteries in electric vehicles around the world, and there are now many millions of them, have nickel that come from the nickel refinery in Kwinana in Western Australia. We have huge opportunities we should take advantage of them.

BONA: Let's talk about it next time we talk and we'll talk again soon. I really appreciate your time today.

ALBANESE: Terrific. Thanks, Luke.

ENDS