SUBJECTS: Diet; COVID outbreaks and restrictions around Australia; vaccine rollout; need for national quarantine; Federal election; Doherty modelling; national plan for reopening; Labor’s policy agenda; potential legal cases concerning WA borders; Mark McGowan keeping WA safe; Federal Labor Party; AFL Grand Final.

CLIFF REEVE, HOST: On The Drive Home on Triple M across WA. It's good to have you with us. And so nice to be able to talk to this gentleman again. We haven't had him on the show for a little while because, let's face it, he's got one or two things on the go each day. He is the Opposition Leader in Australia, Anthony Albanese. Good afternoon. Welcome to 'Croods Cave'. 

ANTHONY ALBANESE, LEADER OF THE AUSTRALIAN LABOR PARTY: Good afternoon, Cliff. Well, it was my opponent who described Western Australians as ‘cave dwellers’ along with Queenslanders. Seems to me that's not a great way to get support from the electorate. Rather strange. But then again, so was backing Clive Palmer's challenge to Western Australians being kept safe by Mark McGowan's Government. 

REEVE: Well, I'm going to come back to that because Michaelia Cash, the Attorney-General, has weighed into that in the last 48 hours. But listen, something a bit lighter to start with, if I may. I've had a couple of the ladies in the office, when I said that I was going to be talking to Anthony Albanese, they asked, 'What's he doing? He's dropped an absolute ton of weight and he's getting back to 'Hot Albo' again'. Now, I read that you've cut out pasta, which you love. You've cut out bread. Your son's not too keen on this. What's the go? 

ALBANESE: Well, just being a bit careful with the diet makes a difference. And getting regular exercise. It's been difficult, I have got to say, this week, of course, we've been sitting in Parliament, which isn't the healthiest environment. It's very hard to get out and about. And, of course, I'm in Canberra, where we've been in lockdown. So I am only allowed an hour to exercise every day outside. But I do have a treadmill sitting here in the office next to my desk which has also been quite handy. 

REEVE: Excellent news. We'll be back to the t-shirts and the boardies before we know it. I'll tell the ladies. I'll let them know here in the office. All right. So now to the serious stuff. I would think that this next Federal election, whenever it's going to be, is going to be the same as the last state election, maybe the next state election in Victoria and New South Wales and Queensland, whenever it comes about. It's going to be about COVID, and I would think almost nothing else. Would you agree?

ALBANESE: No, I think it will also be about what happens after COVID, how we build back stronger. What COVID has done is, I think, two things. One is that it has shown us the strength of Australian society, the way that people have made sacrifices to look after each other, to look after their family, their neighbours and people they've never met. But it's also shown us the weaknesses in the economy, our lack of resilience. 

REEVE: We've just gone up. The figures from yesterday showed that our economy has grown 0.7 per cent, which isn’t much, but it's going in the right direction. 

ALBANESE: But there's so many Australians who are still struggling to get the work and the hours they need. We've got increased insecurity at work. We still don't manufacture enough things here. And I think we need to use this period to basically imagine a better Australia and then set about creating it. One where we manufacture more, including high-value manufacturing. We're capable of doing it. There are many great stories, but we can do so much more. 

REEVE: But excuse me, if I may. When the people are standing in the ballot box, are they going to be thinking about that? Or are they going to think about, in the eastern states, lockdowns, in Western Australia, the fact that we have, I think, dodged a bullet, and our economy is doing okay? They're not going to be thinking about any of that other stuff other than, 'Well, you know, Mark McGowan saved us’, rightly or wrongly, whichever way you look at it. ‘The Federal Government hasn't looked after us’, whether that's rightly or wrongly or just a perception, I'm not sure. But isn't that what they're going to be thinking about at that moment? 

ALBANESE: There's no doubt that will be a big factor. The two jobs that the Government had, that they failed on this year - the failure to roll out the vaccines quickly enough and the failure to have purpose-built quarantine. That's why I'm in lockdown and most of Australia is in lockdown. The fact is that Mark McGowan has made some tough decisions at times to lockdown Perth and the Peel region when there's been a small outbreak. But have a look at what's happening in New South Wales with over a thousand cases every day, with deaths every day, with things not getting better, and you'll see that he made the right decision. Because quite clearly, if we had acted sooner, as the New South Wales Government was discouraged from doing by Scott Morrison, we would have been better off. And so they will think about all of those issues. But they'll also, I think, be thinking about the future and who offers a better future, who has a plan for skills, who has to plan for cheaper childcare, for manufacturing here, to become a renewable energy superpower, who has a plan to build housing and construction, who has a plan for sustainable transport and for regional economic development. And Labor will be offering all of those things at the next election, as well as a stronger Federation. This idea of a Prime Minister who has National Cabinet meetings but then accuses Western Australians of being cave dwellers because they've been successful, WA has got the Grand Final now. 

REEVE: That's right. And I want to come back and talk to you about that. And I want to talk to you about Michaelia Cash as well and the fact that Josh Frydenberg, the Treasurer, has jumped in on Western Australia too. Anthony Albanese is with us today. We're going to take some time and come back with Anthony in just a couple of minutes here on Triple M.

You are with The Drive Home on Triple M. It is Cliff here. We'll get back to some music in a moment. Anthony Albanese is with us today on the show. We were talking about opening up Western Australia. Michaelia Cash has now jumped into the fray. And I'm not going to talk law and argue with the Attorney-General. But I would have thought that the state's rights have got to take precedence on whether we open up the borders or not in WA. 

ALBANESE: Well, this was an extraordinary intervention. And what's amazing is that the last two Attorney-Generals under this Government have both been from Western Australia and they have both essentially attacked the rights of Western Australians. And you had, of course, Christian Porter, when he was Attorney-General, supported the Clive Palmer case. It cost taxpayers, Australian taxpayers, a million dollars, including money that had to be paid to the WA Government, money that had to be paid to Clive Palmer, and money that was paid to the Australian Government solicitor. A million dollars for a case that, of course, was lost in the High Court. And what you had, essentially, was a threat from Michaelia Cash that there'd be more legal cases coming and she thought that they might be successful this time, instead of discouraging this action, which has cost taxpayers their money. What we need is more vaccines, not more High Court cases. And that's the way to solve this issue. I just found it an extraordinary intervention, following on from the intervention by the Prime Minister last week of calling Western Australians ‘cave dwellers’, and following on from the Government, the Morrison Government, backing the court case of Clive Palmer, saying that Western Australians shouldn't have the capacity to control their borders at a time when all the Western Australian Government is doing is trying to keep their community safe. 

REEVE: And most people are saying, 'Keep the border shut'. It's very, very difficult for farmworkers. It is going to be not that far down the track that we've got to get fruit picked again. And if we can't get those people in here, that is very, very difficult. But surely things are going to be worse if there's a legal case and the Attorney-General says, 'Open up your borders' and suddenly we've got COVID in WA. I don't think anybody wants that. 

ALBANESE: No, that's right. And I've spoken to Alannah MacTiernan. She has a plan to bring in workers safely. And that's what needs to happen. No one wants restrictions. No one. Everyone would like for us to return to life as normal. I want to be able to come travel to Western Australia there. I love your great state. But the first priority has to be to keep people safe. And people understand that. Every state and territory government has signed up to the national plan. But the national plan has within it, keeping people safe. It's not an idea of just, 'Don't worry about the consequences'. And that's what Mark McGowan is saying. And that's what he's putting into action. And if the Morrison Government hadn't botched the quarantine system and also the rollout of the vaccines, we wouldn't be in this predicament now. We wouldn't have lockdowns and restrictions. So I think it's a bit rich for Michaelia Cash or anyone else in the Morrison Government to say, 'Open up your borders' when the reason why they're closed is because of a failure of Federal Government policy.

REEVE: Can I just ask you one thing before we let you go? Peter Van Onselen the other day in The Australian wrote, 'Make no mistake, Bill Shorten is coming for Albanese'. When you read that, did your heart skip a little bit? Or did you just say, 'That's politics'? 

ALBANESE: Well, that's nonsense is what that is. Our Labor Party is united. Bill is an important part of the team. What we're focused on is giving Australia a government that is as good as the Australian people themselves. 

REEVE: So you're all united? I believe, in some backrooms, he was called a wrecker. 

ALBANESE: No. We are a united team. And what we're united about is building a stronger nation, a stronger Federation, stronger regions and a collaborative and inclusive approach that involves respecting people wherever they live, whatever work they do, and making sure that we advance as a nation together, as opposed to the current Government that consistently seeking to divide Australians, particularly at the moment between East and West. 

REEVE: I don't think I'm going to get a chance to talk to you before the Grand Final. Maybe. You don't have to worry about Hawthorn. I don't have to worry about my Dockers this year either.

ALBANESE: The Hawks didn't have the best year, it must be said. 

REEVE: So who wins the Grand Final this year?

ALBANESE: Look, you've got to say that the Demons are looking very strong. And they haven't won since 1964. And my son became a Demons supporter for a while there because when he was a young lad, he played for the Marrickville Red Devils and they had a demon, basically, on their shirts for the Marrickville Red Devils. And so we went to a game between the Swans and Ds at Manuka Oval here in Canberra. And the late great Jimmy Stynes took him into the dressing room. He was such a lovely gentleman. He took him into the dressing room before they ran out. And they just won him over completely. 

REEVE: That'll do it. I'd love to see them win it this year. I think that would be terrific. 

ALBANESE: I'm a South Sydney Rugby League fan. I was on the board. We waited 43 years between comps. So it's been a long, long while.

REEVE: Well as a Dockers fan, you've made me feel a whole lot better. So thank you for that. It'll happen, we're rebuilding. Thank you so much for your time. I know that you're busy. Anthony Albanese, always good to talk to you on Triple M. Thank you and have a good night tonight. 

ALBANESE: Thanks very much. Stay safe everyone. 

REEVE: Take care, Anthony Albanese.

ENDS